[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The SJ pick could end up being Lafrenier.

Ottawa's certainly got great odds. Would be a little funny if they ended up with 1 & 2 or something...they certainly seem to have been relatively 'lucky' to escape the Duchene debacle with Tkachuk and only losing a 4OA (though time will tell if they might have been better with Turcotte or Cozens instead of Tkachuk).

Another example is the Subban trade - obviously NJ hoped to at least be in or around the bubble, but I'm sure Poile knew there was a great chance that one or both of those picks would be low 30s.

The Hurricanes did darn well with the Adam Fox signing rights - a 37OA, and another NYR 2nd this year that could be in the same range.

The Hurricanes also hold TOR's 1st rounder this year, top 10 protected, for Marleau. Could very easily be a pick in the 11-15 range.


I'd certainly be happy to acquire Kapanen if a deal can make sense, but I would 100% pursue the more traditional price of a 2nd + lesser prospect for either Brodie/Hamonic, too...decent chance it's in the high 30s. (although TOR's probably not super keen to trade a 2nd while their 1st is in flux.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Ottawa's certainly got great odds. Would be a little funny if they ended up with 1 & 2 or something...they certainly seem to have been relatively 'lucky' to escape the Duchene debacle with Tkachuk and only losing a 4OA (though time will tell if they might have been better with Turcotte or Cozens instead of Tkachuk).

Another example is the Subban trade - obviously NJ hoped to at least be in or around the bubble, but I'm sure Poile knew there was a great chance that one or both of those picks would be low 30s.

The Hurricanes did darn well with the Adam Fox signing rights - a 37OA, and another NYR 2nd this year that could be in the same range.

The Hurricanes also hold TOR's 1st rounder this year, top 10 protected, for Marleau. Could very easily be a pick in the 11-15 range.


I'd certainly be happy to acquire Kapanen if a deal can make sense, but I would 100% pursue the more traditional price of a 2nd + lesser prospect for either Brodie/Hamonic, too...decent chance it's in the high 30s. (although TOR's probably not super keen to trade a 2nd while their 1st is in flux.

If BT trades one of those D guys for a second and some B prospect I will be pissed. We need to go for it.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If BT trades one of those D guys for a second and some B prospect I will be pissed. We need to go for it.

Go for what? This team doesn't have what it takes and Tyler Toffoli isn't going to change that. The roster is fundamentally flawed, too small, talent too concentrated, too many LH shots, etc. Not trading Hamonic and letting him go for nothing would be a bone headed move imo.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Go for what? This team doesn't have what it takes and Tyler Toffoli isn't going to change that. The roster is fundamentally flawed, too small, talent too concentrated, too many LH shots, etc. Not trading Hamonic and letting him go for nothing would be a bone headed move imo.

So why do you bother watching then? I am not being smart, it is a serious question. I don't understand why anyone would put the effort of following a team so closely you take the time to post on a message board and yet don't think they can win anything. Anything can happen in the playoffs, last year is proof of that. The Kings were proof of that. Now cue the slew of negative posters with the whole "that is not happening, "those were the exception not the rule", blah blah blah.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So why do you bother watching then?

I root for chaos. Watching hockey in Alberta for the last decade or two has really delivered.

[Strange Brew]

It really wouldn’t take much for this team to be the best in the Pacific. Isn’t that worth something?

If you don’t believe that, then yeah sell everything that isn’t nailed down I guess.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So why do you bother watching then? I am not being smart, it is a serious question. I don't understand why anyone would put the effort of following a team so closely you take the time to post on a message board and yet don't think they can win anything. Anything can happen in the playoffs, last year is proof of that. The Kings were proof of that. Now cue the slew of negative posters with the whole "that is not happening, "those were the exception not the rule", blah blah blah.

Because sometimes its okay to have long-term vision instead of only looking at the short-term? You can still follow a team and understand that more needs to happen before you should be going all in.

How do you think successful companies function? They certainly don't put their eggs in one basket without a long-term plan. I can guarantee you that none of them are looking at stupid exceptions as the basis for making their decisions... "Company X beat the odds so now our company should also spend billions on something random. we can also get lucky"

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Because sometimes its okay to have long-term vision instead of only looking at the short-term? You can still follow a team and understand that more needs to happen before you should be going all in.

How do you think successful companies function? They certainly don't put their eggs in one basket without a long-term plan. I can guarantee you that none of them are looking at stupid exceptions as the basis for making their decisions... "Company X beat the odds so now our company should also spend billions on something random. we can also get lucky"

So long term vision is selling TJ Brodie or Hamonic for a 2nd that more than likely won't amount to squat during our window to be competitive? Lol. By your model the Oilers are a successful business model.

[Roof-Daddy]

The time to trade Brodie or Hamonic for futures (or long term help) was last off season. Kadri put a stop to that and now it would be a bad look to deal them for picks.

A hockey trade isnt out of the question but its not likely to get a young controllable forward for a near 30 pending UFA Dman so if a hockey trade happens its probably for a pending UFA forward.

Of course, if the Flames dive in the standings from now to the deadline things might change, but as long as they are in the mix I cant see Treliving selling them off for picks.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So long term vision is selling TJ Brodie or Hamonic for a 2nd that more than likely won't amount to squat during our window to be competitive? Lol. By your model the Oilers are a successful business model.

The Flames have looked like dog crap for most of this season. We can pretend they can win it all due to the standings because the Pacific sucks but comeon.

Collect some picks for the Free Agents to re-stock the prospect cupboards, make a few trades to shake up the core, get a better coach.. and then try again next season.

Very few people would say the Flames look like a team that can win the cup. You really think they have much of a chance against St. Louis, Colorado, Boston, Tampa Bay, or Washington? Highly unlikely. So get some picks, ride out the season and then make the necessary changes.

Or I guess we can be #1 fan like you and just believe no matter what.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The Flames have looked like dog crap for most of this season. We can pretend they can win it all due to the standings because the Pacific sucks but comeon.

Collect some picks for the Free Agents to re-stock the prospect cupboards, make a few trades to shake up the core, get a better coach.. and then try again next season.

Very few people would say the Flames look like a team that can win the cup. You really think they have much of a chance against St. Louis, Colorado, Boston, Tampa Bay, or Washington? Highly unlikely. So get some picks, ride out the season and then make the necessary changes.

Or I guess we can be #1 fan like you and just believe no matter what.

We haven't seen the Flames with another top six forward or two though...

And really nobody is all that likely to win the cup...30 teams should be bailing on the season. Call me old school but I will be cheering for the team to get better and win this season. If we lose out on a 2nd rounder so be it

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by dino7c

We haven't seen the Flames with another top six forward or two though...

And really nobody is all that likely to win the cup...30 teams should be bailing on the season. Call me old school but I will be cheering for the team to get better and win this season. If we lose out on a 2nd rounder so be it

Fair enough. I still do think that some teams are more likely to win than others. Just need to know when is the right time to go for it.

How about this: What if teams get desperate and prices go up .. and the Flames can pick up a first for both Brodie and Hamonic.. you would give up a chance to enter the draft with 3 1st round picks?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The Flames have looked like dog crap for most of this season. We can pretend they can win it all due to the standings because the Pacific sucks but comeon.

Collect some picks for the Free Agents to re-stock the prospect cupboards, make a few trades to shake up the core, get a better coach.. and then try again next season.

Very few people would say the Flames look like a team that can win the cup. You really think they have much of a chance against St. Louis, Colorado, Boston, Tampa Bay, or Washington? Highly unlikely. So get some picks, ride out the season and then make the necessary changes.

Or I guess we can be #1 fan like you and just believe no matter what.

Really?

Stfu.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Really?

Stfu.

Did I piss too much in your cereal this morning? Oops, sorry about that.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So long term vision is selling TJ Brodie or Hamonic for a 2nd that more than likely won't amount to squat during our window to be competitive? Lol. By your model the Oilers are a successful business model.

Without two 2nds maybe we don't have the assets to make the Hamilton deal. Picks are currency to make bigger moves and this team could use another impact player.

You not only want to spend assets but are also against gaining them. So we could miss out on extra picks not selling UFAs, spend our current assets, and then we hope and pray this group figures it out. There's no guarantee they make the playoffs and a deep run seems far less likely.

Instead you could make a trade to gain some picks, keep your own, and in the off season use them to make a bigger move that gives your team a better opportunity to win.

In the end I doubt the organization will sell but I find it baffling that you dont seem to be able to wrap your head around having a longer term vision and trying to increase the odds for success as much as possible. I get where you're coming from. I actually agree that teams should go all in or make bold short terms moves when they have an opportunity to win, I just dont see this year or this current team as the one to gamble with. And the more short terms gambles that fail now the harder it will be to be competitive later.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Fair enough. I still do think that some teams are more likely to win than others. Just need to know when is the right time to go for it.

How about this: What if teams get desperate and prices go up .. and the Flames can pick up a first for both Brodie and Hamonic.. you would give up a chance to enter the draft with 3 1st round picks?

I don't think that is realistic at all... obviously is someone is gonna massively overpay though you look at it

If you could get a 1st I would look at flipping them for a forward. It's pretty hard to get mad at a team for not getting it done if they are never loaded up for a run.

Calgary got worked by Colorado sure, they also had the lead in the final few minutes of 3 of the 5 games losing 2 in OT. Another top forward can make a massive difference IMO.

If they aren't going to upgrade the roster though I guess they might as well sell

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

our window to be competitive?

It all boils down to what you think 'competitive window' means. We are competitive. I want to contend.

At this moment I'd feel more confident dropping a $20 on 16 other teams to win the cup before Calgary.

I'd place our current odds as similar to Columbus, Toronto, Vancouver, and Edmonton. Slightly greater than zero, but a ton of things have to happen just right.

I actually think the Flames are about as good/better than teams like Florida, Philly, Arizona, Chicago, and Nashville, but I don't have any evidence to suggest that those teams will wilt under the bright lights like Calgary has. I have more confidence in any of those teams to win the Stanley Cup than Calgary (even if I think a few are less likely to even make the playoffs).

Perhaps I'm a pessimist. I still say get in and anything can happen. But that means that anything can happen even if you've traded away a UFA RD and not bought any rentals.


I see 21 teams in the hunt (I say no to MIN, NYR, BUF). We are 20th/21 in GF, behind only Dallas, who is 1st in GA by a huge margin. We are 21st/21 in goal differential; CHI and WIN are the only other 'competitive' teams in the negative.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I see 21 teams in the hunt (I say no to MIN, NYR, BUF). We are 20th in GF, behind only Dallas, who is 1st in GA by a huge margin. We are 21st in goal differential; CHI and WIN are the only other 'competitive' teams in the negative.

Calgary is actually 25th in goal differential.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So why do you bother watching then? I am not being smart, it is a serious question. I don't understand why anyone would put the effort of following a team so closely you take the time to post on a message board and yet don't think they can win anything. Anything can happen in the playoffs, last year is proof of that. The Kings were proof of that. Now cue the slew of negative posters with the whole "that is not happening, "those were the exception not the rule", blah blah blah.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself but I will openly say that I don't follow the team nearly as much as I used to when I thought they had a fighting chance. I'm still a Flames fan and always will be but I don't think they're good enough and I'm allowed to think that much like some others. I follow the team for so many reasons, I would like for them to realize they aren't as good as they think and start thinking more for the future. I'd like for them to think this whole "once you make the playoffs, anything can happen" is betting on magic beans. I follow the team as an escape to just think about nothing other than hockey. All of those reasons have nothing to do with how bad the team really is though. The Flames being in a playoff spot is like being the best driver in a show about the worst drivers in the world...sure you're better than some but you're still not nearly good enough.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Calgary is actually 25th in goal differential.

I think he means out of whatever 21 teams he thinks are in the hunt.