[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can someone explain to me why Toronto would want to trade Kapanen? Is it just for the cap savings (to add to back-end) or to acquire a defenseman for the back end?

I think Dubas is stupid, but he can't be so stupid as to trade Kapanen for a rental defenseman or one he could acquire as a UFA. It also doesn't make sense to trade a top-6 player that's making $3m a year, just because "he's buried in the depth chart" unless you're taking back a young defenseman who's equally underpaid.

If you have a $3m player that is ready for a top-6 role, you make room for him by trading a higher priced contract. It would make far more sense for the leafs to trade Marner, Tavares, Matthews or Nylander for a high end defenseman (or two).

Well, Firstly - sense and TOR don't mix.

TOR isn't trading any of their top 4 guys. They are untouchable at least until the summer.

That leaves 4 guys with some value - Kerfoot, Johnssen, Kapenen. Hyman is used as the sandpaper with Matthews.

Only Kapenen is a RW, so he would be the one the Flames are most interested in. He's the youngest, shoots right, signed for 3 years - checks off a lot of boxes, hence the most talked about on this site. Dubas likely won't get what he needs from the others.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

At some point Dubas is going to get fired or figure out that (in a cap world) TML can't be allocating 50% of the cap to four forwards.

It won't be Hall for Larson one-for-one, but one of those four guys is probably going to move.

I don’t think it has to do with the reasons you suggested, it has to do with Tavares falling into their laps. So now they have to decide which forward with term they move on from: Nylander or Kapanen.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Seems like an odd toss away comment. I don't think anyone makes a trade without trying to make their team better/significantly better...

I took this to mean that Toronto may be open to trading a Kapanen and perhaps another decent asset for say a d-man with some real term left, or one that is still on his ELC.

A Kapanen for Hamonic trade, for example, makes Toronto better as a team this year, but likely does nothing for next year.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Toonage

From this week's 31 Thoughts:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-injury-rehab/

"There’s been a lot of talk about Kasperi Kapanen, but the sense around the NHL is the only way Toronto moves him now is in a big deal. Something that makes them significantly better."

Really though what else are they gonna say? "We desperately need a dman and will trade him for anyone decent"

They absolutely need a dman now and don't have much else to trade

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I took this to mean that Toronto may be open to trading a Kapanen and perhaps another decent asset for say a d-man with some real term left, or one that is still on his ELC.

A Kapanen for Hamonic trade, for example, makes Toronto better as a team this year, but likely does nothing for next year.

Or Kapenen, and no additional assets, to negotiate an extension with a solid defensive dman who I can’t imagine will request more than $5.5 per season. If that.

How many mid salary defenseman are available this off season that are better than Hamonic?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Really though what else are they gonna say? "We desperately need a dman and will trade him for anyone decent"

They absolutely need a dman now and don't have much else to trade

I think they want a backup as well, and are looking to make a package deal of some sort.

They'd allegedly been in on Georgiev. I think there is more to it than that.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

TOR isn't trading any of their top 4 guys. They are untouchable at least until the summer. That leaves 4 guys with some value - Kerfoot, Johnssen, Kapenen. Hyman is used as the sandpaper with Matthews.

Only Kapenen is a RW, so he would be the one the Flames are most interested in. He's the youngest, shoots right, signed for 3 years - checks off a lot of boxes, hence the most talked about on this site. Dubas likely won't get what he needs from the others.

They can't trade those four guys because they're on cap friendly contracts beyond this season.

And if Toronto does a trade and sign for a player like Brodie or Hamonic, the re-sign is going to be $5m+. And then Muzzin is going to come back at $5m plus if they want him back.

So Brodie + Muzzin+Holl at $12m in 2020/21 replaces Muzzin + Barrie + Ceci + Holl at $12m in 2019/20 and TML is still short a defenseman. And its a top-4 for Holl, Rielly, Muzzin and Brodie.

The numbers don't work. The team needs a clear-cut top pairing defenseman. That's going to cost $7m+ in cap space. The only way to make that work is to trade a Nylander or Marner. Until then, its going to be another one and done playoffs for Toronto (if they even make it)

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

At some point Dubas is going to get fired or figure out that (in a cap world) TML can't be allocating 50% of the cap to four forwards.

It won't be Hall for Larson one-for-one, but one of those four guys is probably going to move.

Looking at the standings currently, if the Leafs do end up missing the playoffs, I just can't see how Dubas doesn't move one of their top 4 forwards in the summer. You can't have 4 forwards taking up that much of your cap. What a terrible GM. He got worked on all his RFA contracts.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Looking at the standings currently, if the Leafs do end up missing the playoffs, I just can't see how Dubas doesn't move one of their top 4 forwards in the summer. You can't have 4 forwards taking up that much of your cap. What a terrible GM. He got worked on all his RFA contracts.

I think if the Leafs miss they clean house upstairs.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Or Kapenen, and no additional assets, to negotiate an extension with a solid defensive dman who I can’t imagine will request more than $5.5 per season. If that.

How many mid salary defenseman are available this off season that are better than Hamonic?

I don't think the cap works for the leafs with that kind of deal.

They either need a rental or a d-man with term who will cost no more than Kapanen.

Kapanen should be able to bring a similar type d-man in terms of skill and cap. At least that would/should be Toronto's first choice.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can someone explain to me why Toronto would want to trade Kapanen? Is it just for the cap savings (to add to back-end) or to acquire a defenseman for the back end?

I think Dubas is stupid, but he can't be so stupid as to trade Kapanen for a rental defenseman or one he could acquire as a UFA. It also doesn't make sense to trade a top-6 player that's making $3m a year, just because "he's buried in the depth chart" unless you're taking back a young defenseman who's equally underpaid.

If you have a $3m player that is ready for a top-6 role, you make room for him by trading a higher priced contract. It would make far more sense for the leafs to trade Marner, Tavares, Matthews or Nylander for a high end defenseman (or two).

Yes. Seriously. There's no way Dubas is trading Tavares, Matthews or Marner and while I think he'd trade Nylander, I don't know that other teams value him as much as the Leaf fans do. Plus, he sunk a lot of goodwill into getting Nylander signed.

Just as you wouldn't trade Kapanen for a young underpaid Dman, I think teams with a young underpaid top 4 Dman wouldn't trade that asset. I wouldn't trade Andersson, for example. If it's true Minnie is looking to trade Dumba, maybe that would work, but Dumba makes $6M and that doesn't fit the Leafs' cap, especially when replacing Kapanen's $3.5.

Hamonic is only 29. If the Leafs could sign him for a contract similar to the one he's making now, he shores up their D, doesn't cost too much and they possibly have another asset to go along with it, since you probably add something like a conditional pick or a prospect, or maybe a bottom 6 forward (Reider fits their team I think or maybe they think they can turn Janko around).

[jg13]

If the Leafs aren't interested in trading for a rental from us maybe theres a move to be made in the summer involving Giordano for the last 2 years of his contract involving one of their forwards while their window is open

[GioforPM]

I think Hamonic signs for far less than $5M. Or at least something that has a cap hit in that area, front end loaded perhaps, since he makes $4.85 right now in real dollars.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Hamonic signs for far less than $5M. Or at least something that has a cap hit in that area, front end loaded perhaps, since he makes $4.85 right now in real dollars.

Is hamonic worth anything over $4M/year???

[SeanCharles]

I don’t think Toronto would have a problem moving out 2 players like Kapanen ($3.2m), Johnsson ($3.4m) and Kerfoot ($3.5m) if it means upgrading their defence and opening up some cap space.

Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Hyman and Mikheyev can be the foundation of their top 6 moving forward.

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kerfoot-Spezza
Moore-Gauthier-Timashov
Bracco/Petan/Aberg

They can fill in the bottom six with cheaper contracts as players like Rieder/Rinaldo pop up all the time.

Their top 6 is one of the strongest in the league so filling out their bottom 6 with value contracts is less destructive than rolling out the defensive group they have been.

I‘ve even seen some TO fans say when fully healthy there isn’t even a spot for a guy like Johnsson on the roster.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Hamonic signs for far less than $5M. Or at least something that has a cap hit in that area, front end loaded perhaps, since he makes $4.85 right now in real dollars.

Hard to say really as Tyler Myers got $6 million a season coming off a poor season (defensively the Jets were a worse team with him on the ice as per the link below) with the Jets. It only takes one team that's desperate and I don't think Hamonic is worth what he could fetch in free agency.

https://theathletic.com/1057961/2019...line-overhaul/

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hard to say really as Tyler Myers got $6 million a season coming off a poor season (defensively the Jets were a worse team with him on the ice as per the link below) with the Jets. It only takes one team that's desperate and I don't think Hamonic is worth what he could fetch in free agency.



https://theathletic.com/1057961/2019...line-overhaul/

Canuck fans would also rather have Myers than Hanifin...

I'm very interested in seeing how this team performs after their break when they've had ample free time to do as they wish and get away from the daily grind of workouts, healthy diets and practices. It didn't work out so well last year, and we'll get to see if anything has changed this year and if last year was an anomaly. I wonder if the coaching staff and/or Treliving said anything before the break, reminding the team of their slide last year after the All Star break?

[Vinny01]

Toronto is now 3pts out and 10th in the East. I think they are definitely going to do something to try and improve their blueline. If that team misses the playoffs Dubas is going to get roasted.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Is hamonic worth anything over $4M/year???

$4M is what I'd have offered. On maybe a 4 year term.

[Toonage]

Didn't the Flames try signing him to an extension before the year began, or at least talked extension and it didn't go well?

Think that number was $4M?