[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[AC]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'm personally invested in seeing Sam Bennett succeed, here, on the Flames.

I dont care about his current status and lack of production. Hes just the one player I've believed in for so long I can't just toss in the towel.

I fully 100 percent understand why people want him traded, think he is a bust. I truly do get it. He has invited the dissent for 3 years now. Perhaps he is best served with a fresh start on another team. But I personally cannot shake the belief that if this team can get deep into the promised land, he is going to be THE MAN who deals the deal for this team.

I cant shake it.

If he gets traded, life goes on and we will be left with what could have been, I really dont want that though. Hes my 3rd favorite player on the team.

My thoughts exactly.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bennett wants a fresh start elsewhere, but given how the majority of this team has struggled to perform in the playoffs, it'd be a real shame to move the one impact player we've had consistently impress when the games get their hardest.

But I'll understand if/when it happens.

[heep223]

Stash Bennett on the 4th line during the regular season and then unleash him in the playoffs.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by heep223

Stash Bennett on the 4th line during the regular season and then unleash him in the playoffs.

I think we are setting ourselves up for disappointment.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by heep223

Stash Bennett on the 4th line during the regular season and then unleash him in the playoffs.

You’re already getting unleashed Bennett.

[TheSquatch]

The idea of "unleashing" Bennett just makes me laugh at this point, if he's our secret weapon, we're doomed. Package up Bennett and Kognnt, and throw in Janko, get what you can.

[heep223]

Well I just don’t think we’d get much for him. He was the team’s best forward in the playoffs last season IIRC? Not that that’s saying much.

[AC]

A big part of it also has to be what value Bennett holds around the league. I'd imagine it's quite low, and realistically lower than the value Bennett brings the team when it comes to the playoffs.

I think Bennett has been our best even strength playoff player in all 4 rounds he's participated in. Sure that doesn't include large point totals (though only 1 point less than Gaudreau), or "high skill plays", but his aggressiveness of the forecheck, ability to cause chaos in front of the net, and deliver huge hits can certainly make a difference in a playoff game, series, and run overall.

I get the desire to move on from him by some fans. But realistically, if you only get a 2nd round pick for Sam Bennett, is it worth it? If he's a sweetener on a big trade (like he would have been for Taylor Hall), then I can see the benefit. I certainly don't want to dump him out of frustration, which is a thought that gets mentioned here occasionally.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

A big part of it also has to be what value Bennett holds around the league. I'd imagine it's quite low, and realistically lower than the value Bennett brings the team when it comes to the playoffs.

I think Bennett has been our best even strength playoff player in all 4 rounds he's participated in. Sure that doesn't include large point totals (though only 1 point less than Gaudreau), or "high skill plays", but his aggressiveness of the forecheck, ability to cause chaos in front of the net, and deliver huge hits can certainly make a difference in a playoff game, series, and run overall.

I get the desire to move on from him by some fans. But realistically, if you only get a 2nd round pick for Sam Bennett, is it worth it? If he's a sweetener on a big trade (like he would have been for Taylor Hall), then I can see the benefit. I certainly don't want to dump him out of frustration, which is a thought that gets mentioned here occasionally.

If you think you can get a piece and then around and flip that our e for something bigger I think there's a deal to be done there, but I agree you don't move him for the sake of it.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by AC

I get the desire to move on from him by some fans. But realistically, if you only get a 2nd round pick for Sam Bennett, is it worth it? If he's a sweetener on a big trade (like he would have been for Taylor Hall), then I can see the benefit. I certainly don't want to dump him out of frustration, which is a thought that gets mentioned here occasionally.

The last 4 second round picks for the Flames are Dube, Parsons, Kylington and Andersson.

Goalies are and will probably always be a crapshoot, but would you trade any of the other three straight across for Bennett right now?

[AC]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

The last 4 second round picks for the Flames are Dube, Parsons, Kylington and Andersson.

Goalies are and will probably always be a crapshoot, but would you trade any of the other three straight across for Bennett right now?

Ok, but the 2nd round picks before those 4:
Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Patrick Sieloff, Markus Granlund, and Tyler Wotherspoon.

If the Flames are shopping Bennett, I wouldn't move him for a 2nd round pick. Especially when we currently hold our 1st and 2nd picks.

[Gaskal]

According to these magical WOWY numbers, to rediscover "18 year old" Sam Bennett, we simply switch him with Dube.
And then, to create the best possible bottom six overall, dump Jankowski for Czarnik and have Dube play centre again. And we don't need to wait for a trade to make this happen.

Lucic-Ryan-Bennett
Reider-Dube-Czarnik



(taken as aggregate of this year's stats so far + last year's... the 'not-Gulutzan' years)

Bennett with Lucic / Ryan make each other better:

Lucic with Bennett: 56.3 CF%
Bennett without Lucic: 47.6 CF%
Lucic without Bennett: 51.4 CF%

Ryan with Bennett: 55.5 CF%
Bennett without Ryan: 51.9 CF%
Ryan without Bennett: 51.0 CF%


Dube works great with The Czar:

Czarnik with Dube: 70.6 CF%
Dube without Czarnik: 40.8 CF%
Czarnik without Dube: 55.5 CF%


Janko drags Bennett down, awful chemistry with Dube:

Janko with Bennett: 52.6 CF%
Bennett without Janko: 54.2 CF%
Janko without Bennett: 49.8 CF%

Janko with Dube: 42.5 CF%
Janko without Dube: 49.5 CF%
Dube without Janko: 47.6 CF%

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by AC

Ok, but the 2nd round picks before those 4:
Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Patrick Sieloff, Markus Granlund, and Tyler Wotherspoon.

If the Flames are shopping Bennett, I wouldn't move him for a 2nd round pick. Especially when we currently hold our 1st and 2nd picks.

Agreed. Either move him in a package for a top 6 forward, move him for a young player that still has potential (JP) , or keep him.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by AC

Ok, but the 2nd round picks before those 4:
Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Patrick Sieloff, Markus Granlund, and Tyler Wotherspoon.

If the Flames are shopping Bennett, I wouldn't move him for a 2nd round pick. Especially when we currently hold our 1st and 2nd picks.

You're smart enough to know who made those picks. Are you going to pretend a sutter/feaster pick is representative of a burke/treliving pick?

Hunter Smith is a good comparable for a second round pick?

[Gaskal]

And we still badly need that right shot RW to play with Johnny/Mony...

Backlund with Monahan: 47.5 CF%
Backlund without Monahan: 54.1 CF%
Monahan without Backlund: 53.9 CF%

Backlund with Gaudreau: 45.7 CF%
Backlund without Gaudreau: 54.6 CF%
Gaudreau without Backlund: 53.0 CF%

[AC]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

You're smart enough to know who made those picks. Are you going to pretend a sutter/feaster pick is representative of a burke/treliving pick?

Hunter Smith is a good comparable for a second round pick?

Sam Bennett was also a Burke/Treliving pick. Mason McDonald and Hunter Smith too I guess.

Regardless, my point being that I don't think moving Bennett for a 2nd round pick makes sense for this team as it is structured. I think that would be poor asset management, and I suspect Treliving does as well.

[GullFoss]

Bennett hasn't met expectations, but he's also been utilized poorly. His best attributes are his speed, two way play and compete.

His two way play would be better utilized if he actually played at center. And his speed would be better utilized if the flames best players and the players Bennett had been paired with weren't so slow.

The reason he does better in the playoffs is because the speed of the game picks up and the team around him is forced to play faster, which plays to his strength. And also because the refs put their whistle away, which allows Bennett to compete better.


I still think Bennett thrives on a fast team. He'd look great in Edmonton or Montreal or Toronto or Tampa or Colorado or Vegas

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by AC

Sam Bennett was also a Burke/Treliving pick. Mason McDonald and Hunter Smith too I guess.

Regardless, my point being that I don't think moving Bennett for a 2nd round pick makes sense for this team as it is structured. I think that would be poor asset management, and I suspect Treliving does as well.

I can agree completely that trading roster players for picks doesnt make sense for a team that is in a win now mode, no question. But if you ask me what a player is realistically worth that is a different conversation.

A lot of posters weren't happy for the second round pick we got for Sven either, but look how that turned out. It just stings a little more cause Sam was our highest pick ever.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

And we still badly need that right shot RW to play with Johnny/Mony...

Backlund with Monahan: 47.5 CF%
Backlund without Monahan: 54.1 CF%
Monahan without Backlund: 53.9 CF%

Backlund with Gaudreau: 45.7 CF%
Backlund without Gaudreau: 54.6 CF%
Gaudreau without Backlund: 53.0 CF%

Are.these numbers just from this season?

[AC]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I can agree completely that trading roster players for picks doesnt make sense for a team that is in a win now mode, no question. But if you ask me what a player is realistically worth that is a different conversation.

Worth/value is incredibly hard to figure out. Especially when you look at value across the league vs to that specific team.

Was Curtis Lazar worth a 2nd round pick for a reclamation? That's a really bad look now.

I suspect there would be a lot of teams that would eagerly trade a 2nd for Bennett, but I don't think Treliving would/should consider it because as I said originally, they view Bennett's worth to the Flames team as more significant than that.

My original question that you objected to was "If you only get a 2nd round pick for Sam Bennett, is it worth it?" For the 2019/2020 iteration of the Flames and for Brad Treliving, I think the answer is a strong no.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Are.these numbers just from this season?

That post was for 5v5 on-ice events for 2018-19 season plus this season.

If I isolate just this season, it's basically the same story... break them up right the heck meow.

Gaudreau w/ Backs: 47.3 CF%
Backs w/o Gaudreau: 51.1 CF%
Gaudreau w/o Backs 52.5 CF%

Monahan w/ Backs: 46.4 CF%
Backs w/o Monahan: 51.5 CF%
Monahan w/o Backs: 51.7 CF%