Does it go downhill after 2? I might be in for the long haul if there's 5 in the game series
I wouldn’t say it goes downhill, the quality stays pretty much the same but the surprise isn’t there. Like in 2009, Uncharted 2 was mind blowing. Uncharted 3 was more of the same, which was fine, but it wasn’t unlike anything you’d played before. 4 is still the visual benchmark for consoles IMO (and its 4 years old), and it lags a bit toward the end but still a great game.
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2 is the best one but the rest are still awesome. There's just something about 2 that really grabbed me, but there's no bad games in the series
2 is just one of the best paced games ever. Getting tired of exploring? Here’s a puzzle. Done with puzzles? Time for a gunfight! Done with gunfights? Here’s a part where you just walk around and talk to people a bit. Now a huge action set piece! And a great cutscene! Getting bored of this environment? On to the next one!
Game just breezes by and never gets boring.
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For Trails in the Sky, I guess that depends on whether you want to play the fan translation of the third game. Oddly, that one never came west. I haven't played any of the Sky games, but the Trails of Cold Steel games are great - and long. If you want to start getting into the Legend of Heroes series, prepare to spend a few hundred hours on them.
Thanks... that's about what I gathered from skimming a few reviews. The length is kind of what I'm trying to get into them for. Length, writing, and old-school-ness. Basically, apparently there is an ungodly amount of writing, the combat system is fairly simple, and the story is "JRPG good", which is to say you care about the characters and what happens to them and there are some good if operatically silly twists to go with an over the top opposing force. I just started. Apparently I'm about 8 hours from when it gets good. I'm avoiding spoilers.
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And back to the FF debate... Tidus being annoying is fair, but seriously, what FF games don't have annoying leads?
There's annoying, and then there's Vaan, and then there's fifty feet of crap, and then there's Tidus.
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Cecil in IV is solid.
Cecil is actually great. He epitomizes why IV is so good - simple, old school JRPG goodness, despite the ending going off the rails a bit (nowhere near as much as some others, and no more than X really).
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Bartz? Bland as butter.
I have no strong feelings about anything related to FFV, except for Gilgamesh, who is awesome.
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VI didn't really have a definitive lead.
Disagree. Terra is clearly the main, and she's great. Her story is inextricable from the main plot. Everything about that game except for I guess Gau arguably and Ultros hold up, which is why I wish they'd remade it instead of VII, but meh.
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Cloud is an edgelord
I don't think you're really doing him justice. Cloud isn't my favourite lead, but the way they subverted the "cool, terse JRPG protagonist" by... well, anyone who plays it knows how that goes... created an awesome story arc that again is inextricable from the main plot of the game. You're telling me that when you first played FF7 you saw that dual-twist coming? I don't believe you.
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and Squall is nothing more than some suit at Square demanding "like Cloud, but darker and edgier" - to the point that they even had to make the oversized sword even more ridiculous by adding a gun to it that never actually gets used.
The gun gets used, but yeah, Squall is pretty awful.
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Zidane is a creeper.
You shut your mouth, Zidane is a great protagonist. He is who they wanted Vaan and Tidus to be. Square appears to only really be able to do the cold, brooding, cool-guy protagonist or the young, overexuberant loudmouth protagonist, and Zidane is the best of the latter branch. Again, his story is the game's story and while it doesn't have the twists and turns of Cloud's, the sort of tabula rasa, "you are what you make of yourself" parable they do with him is just... good. Partly because it doesn't overreach.
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Vaan is just pathetic - and a complete waste since it isn't even his story.
No argument here. EDIT: Actually, I should add to this. I like the idea in theory - have your protagonist effectively be an observer and a chronicler of someone else's story. That's a new twist, and I have to applaud them for trying to take things in a different direction. Unfortunately, Vaan sucks. If they wanted to do that they should have just made Basch the main character.
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I liked Lightning, but largely because the rest of the cast sucks
This is also pretty true of FFX, honestly, except that Lightning is... okay, I guess. She's kind of girl-Squall.
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And Noctis is pretty much back in Squall territory.
Nah, you definitely get a lot more insight into Noctis emotionally than you do Squall. Not a great lead, though, regardless.
So, 50-50 good to bad, for me. But Tidus is the worst of the bunch.
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And as far as what I liked about the story goes, the fact that it is straightforward and coherent is a big start. That's been a problem for much of latter FF history.
I would say incoherence is a problem with JRPGs generally (see Chrono Cross). And FFX doesn't have that problem, I guess, but it's kind of uninteresting. The story is effectively "we have to go on a quest to slay this giant evil thing and along the way some bad guys will try to stop us". The central thread is just bland as hell. And I'm actually okay with that, if you make the game about the journey - if you had, for example, a cast of characters who made it enjoyable to get to know them along the way. But you don't, you have Tidus and Yuna and Wakka and Rikku. Or if you had a villain who was compelling and cunning putting obstacles in your way. But you don't, you have Seymour. So it's a straightforward and coherent journey to blah with nothing but annoying bull#### along the way there.
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Much as people love VII, the story is a nonsensical mess. Ditto VIII, XIII and XV.
It hangs together pretty well, actually. I'm not sure what it is that you think doesn't make sense. I think the problem is that you really have to be paying attention because they don't spell everything out for you. There are a couple of holes, but overall it does a pretty good job of avoiding those. The other three are just bad games all around (well, XV was... fine. I guess.)
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X is a pretty good love story - something FF games have generally been poor at otherwise, and the character motivations make sense. I also like the way Jecht set up his long term plan to ultimately defeat Sin using his son. I can buy Seymour as a bad antagonist though. Especially given the fair amount of copycattery going on with respect to Sephiroth and using Sin/Jenova to wipe out life and make themselves into gods.
Except that at least Sephiroth had a good fall-from-grace insanity-inducing story arc that you get to be a part of. Seymour is just all terrible all the way.
As for the love story, it can't really be a good love story when the male lead is effectively the "Hayden Christensen Anakin" of video games and the female lead's sole personality trait is being shy and introverted. If the last scene had capped off an actually compelling love story the game could have been saved by that alone, but it didn't. If you don't like spending time with the characters, how can you give a crap if they end up together? I cared infinitely more about Zidane and Garnet. Hell, Locke and Rachel probably had more of an impact on me. The Tidus / Yuna romance, in my opinion, is barely above Squall / Rinoa.
I actually didn't mind the Jecht thing so much - like everything else in the game, his "mean dad" schtick was way over the top and cheesy as #### but at least in theory it could have been an interesting bit of motivation for the protagonist - but Tidus's character was so unsalvageable that it just didn't matter.
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If I were to rank the games, VI, X, XII, VII, IV (the preceding three can almost go in any order), IX, XV, XIII, VIII, I, V, III, II.
I'd have it VI, VII, IX, IV, XII, X and the order of the rest don't particularly matter as I wouldn't recommend playing them to anyone. Tactics would be in the middle somewhere, if we're counting that one. I guess VIII kind of matters but I don't really want to put it on the list with the others because it was bad enough that it probably ranks below the games that I don't even care about, like XV and V.
Anyway, these games are fun to argue about... I disagree with you on X, but I understand your viewpoint. I also think you're overrating XII, which to me was just an unfinished product. A half-finished really good game is still better than a fully finished mediocre one, of course, and there are a lot of good hours in XII, but its potential was unrealized. Actually, I'm sort of hoping the Trails series is going to do what that one was trying to do better (I understand that global politics is a significant facet of these games).
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Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 05-12-2020 at 11:37 AM.
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Terra's story is certainly closely intertwined with the overall plot given her dual ancestry, but she is rarely the leading character. In the first half, it's Locke driving the narrative and in the second half its Celes. Edgar, Sabin, Cyan and Terra all get a 'chapter' where their immediate circumstances becomes the major focus, while the rest of the cast are pretty much in secondary character territory. However, aside from Gogo and Umaro, still get far more character development than most other games.
EDIT: On a sort of related note (story driven JRPGs), is Trails in the Sky a rabbit hole worth going down at this point? It's on sale on Steam.
The Trails series is incredible. I've played the first five (of nine) and the attention to detail and worldbuilding are in a class of their own. But they're games that really beg to be played in order, because of how much they reference previous entries in subtle but legitimate ways. Basically the world they've built is ever-changing technologically, politically, and socially.
It is absolutely a rabbit hole worth going down, but don't skip any entries. That means you'll have to figure out a way to patch the original Japanese versions of Zero and Azure with their fan translations. Azure is one of the best RPGs (W or J) I've played so I wouldn't skip it either way - - and Zero essentially its prologue.
The lengths of the games vary. The prologue games (Sky, Sky III, Zero) are around 40ish hours, the finale games (Sky II, Azure) are closer to that 70+ hour range.
And yes, Sky III is a prologue to a prologue (Zero). It bridges the end of Sky II to the beginning of Zero. The in medias res prologue of Cold Steel actually takes place in the middle of Azure, so I'm assuming Cold Steel is essentially parallel to the events of Azure, though I haven't finished it yet. They're long games so I am sitting on the four Cold Steel games for a while just to avoid fatigue.
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Originally Posted by Resolute 14
For Trails in the Sky, I guess that depends on whether you want to play the fan translation of the third game. Oddly, that one never came west. I haven't played any of the Sky games, but the Trails of Cold Steel games are great - and long. If you want to start getting into the Legend of Heroes series, prepare to spend a few hundred hours on them.
Sky 3 is officially translated and available on Steam. It's Zero and Azure that are fan translated. The translation for Zero is as good as the official translation. The translation for Azure is a bit rougher but still very good.
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So what is the
Correct order then? Because I figured I'd just be playing first chapter, then second chapter, then third... ie release order.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Somehow I missed this post...
Thanks... that's about what I gathered from skimming a few reviews. The length is kind of what I'm trying to get into them for. Length, writing, and old-school-ness. Basically, apparently there is an ungodly amount of writing, the combat system is fairly simple, and the story is "JRPG good", which is to say you care about the characters and what happens to them and there are some good if operatically silly twists to go with an over the top opposing force. I just started. Apparently I'm about 8 hours from when it gets good. I'm avoiding spoilers.
It has JRPG tropes, but it's a good story in general. Sky 1 is pretty straight forward, but it ends on a cliffhanger that sets up the plot of Sky 2, which is much better. Sky 3 expands on the lore and further develops the overarching plot, and is one of my fave entries in the series even though it's a dungeon crawler with no towns. Zero has another pretty straight forward plot, but serves to setup the plot twist after plot twist in Azure. Again, I haven't played past the prologue of Cold Steel.
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
So what is the
Correct order then? Because I figured I'd just be playing first chapter, then second chapter, then third... ie release order.
Sky
Sky 2
Sky 3
Zero
Azure
Cold Steel (parallel to Azure ITO timeline but assumes you've played Azure)
Cold Steel II
Cold Steel III
Cold Steel IV
Genesis
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 05-12-2020 at 06:10 PM.
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I pre-ordered the Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2 remaster deluxe edition as soon as it was up. September 3rd is going to be a good day... starting at 7 PM.
Ome other thing I'll add about Trails in the sky is to follow a missable hidden quests guide (GameFAQs). The missable quests actually have more meaning/setup to the overarching plot than the main quests.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
I pre-ordered the Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2 remaster deluxe edition as soon as it was up. September 3rd is going to be a good day... starting at 7 PM.
Same here! Also, if you pre-ordered you should get a code to early access the warehouse level. Not sure when that will be released though.
The Trails series is incredible. I've played the first five (of nine) and the attention to detail and worldbuilding are in a class of their own. But they're games that really beg to be played in order, because of how much they reference previous entries in subtle but legitimate ways. Basically the world they've built is ever-changing technologically, politically, and socially.
This sounds pretty interesting!
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV
It is absolutely a rabbit hole worth going down, but don't skip any entries. That means you'll have to figure out a way to patch the original Japanese versions of Zero and Azure with their fan translations.
...oh.
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Ome other thing I'll add about Trails in the sky is to follow a missable hidden quests guide (GameFAQs). The missable quests actually have more meaning/setup to the overarching plot than the main quests.
Just came in to post this. As a Mac user I get all my gaming on a PS and this makes me think I will be an early adopter of the PS5(If you can find them on the first couple of months of launch)
Once you add it to your Epic Games account it will be yours forever and the above link says you will get access to GTAO and a lot of "additional content"
So there are people who skip entries. The series is split into three story arcs (or basically, three different neighbouring countries' stories):
Liberl Arc (Sky /2nd)
Crossbell Arc ( Zero / Azure)
Erebonia Arc (Cold Steel / II / III / IV)
plus Sky 3rd which kind of bridges all three of these arcs together while focusing on the series' equivalent of The Vatican.
Plenty of people do jump right in at Cold Steel for instance, skipping the Liberl and Crossbell arcs. For the self contained part of the story, i.e. the protagonists and antagonists and direct plot, it should be fine. But then there are other elements that get lost to them - for instance a guy who mysteriously was shown in the prologue of Cold Steel, and he's actually a key chess piece not only to the war in Sky 2, the civil war tensions in Sky 3, the trade conference in Azure. Someone who jumped into cold steel wouldn't know some of the history that led to the events in Cold Steel, or why geopolitical tensions were so ramped up in that prologue.
As for the patching itself, I could assist you if you ever get to the fourth and fifth games.
And the hidden quests are good supplements that enrich the experience, but I wouldn't go as far as to call them essential.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 05-13-2020 at 02:00 PM.
One more announcement about AC Valhalla yesterday that caught my attention was Jesper Kyd is coming back to do the musical score. He did all the music for AC1 and the entire Ezio trilogy, and hasnt worked on an AC since the Ezio story concluded back in 2011. I'm excited about this, the music in those games were epic.
Also of note, Einar Selvik will also be composing tracks for the game, who did the music for the TV series Vikings. So the soundtrack and ambient music for Valhalla should be on point at least.
