Safe Injection Sites approved for edm, Cgy announcement tba

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Are you saying the Calgary Police are peddling fake news?

You mean the supposed "spike" report that Peter12 asked for a link to 4 pages ago and has yet to appear?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nyah

That's good - I'm truly glad she feels safe. I'm saying that I wouldn't personally feel safe living or working by a SIS, and that's okay. I'm pointing out that it's okay to have NIMBY-ism regarding places like this without being labelled as someone who just doesn't give a #### about addicts. There are lots of legitimate concerns.

There aren't any legitimate concerns. No one in this thread has mounted a convincing case beyond some minor anecdotal experience.

As Psychnet said, there is far more risk a person goes through by being around a major roadway, yet almost no opposition to the existence of cars.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Except safety isn't really one of them. Anecdotally or statistically.

How can you think that tangible increased crime doesn't have anything to do with safety?

Originally Posted by wretched34

Just had a quick look at the Lethbridge Crime Map.
The SIS opened March 1, 2018, the crime map was able to provide information back to August 2017. So I choose the six months leading up to the opening, and then the 3 six months segments since they've been open. I looked at approximately an 8 block area, East of Stafford Drive, to 12A Street, and South of Highway 3, to 3rd Ave.

Prior to the SIS opening, in that area these are the number of reported crimes in the following Categories:

Assault: 16
Sexual Offenses: 0
Theft (Including from vehicles): 28
Weapons: 0
Disorder: 44
Drug/Alcohol: 6

A total of 94 related crimes.

in the 3 six months segments to follow, here are the numbers in the same categories:

Assault: 24 - 19 - 14
Sexual Offenses: 5 - 6 - 4
Theft (Including from vehicles): 103 - 83 - 50
Weapons: 4 - 10 - 6
Disorder: 199 - 228 - 188
Drug/Alcohol: 87 - 47 - 55

Total related charges:
1st segment: 422 - 348.94% Increase in related crimes
2nd segment: 393 - 318.09% Increase in related crimes
3rd segment: 317 - 237.23% Increase in related crimes

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by peter12

There aren't any legitimate concerns. No one in this thread has mounted a convincing case beyond some minor anecdotal experience.

As Psychnet said, there is far more risk a person goes through by being around a major roadway, yet almost no opposition to the existence of cars.

See my previous post. Increased crime is absolutely a legitimate concern.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nyah

See my previous post. Increased crime is absolutely a legitimate concern.

Not really. I think there is some concern about car break-ins, but as is the case in Vancouver, most of the crime is within the street-entrenched community.

Crime can also be mitigated by increased foot patrols. Homelessness can be mitigated through affordable housing.

These problems won't go away just because their presence makes you uncomfortable.

Vancouver has had decades of looking the other way when it came to the city's opioid epidemic, and look where it has gotten them.

[chemgear]

It's been listed in the thread already, but here's the Calgary Police Report:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1559446857

Follow up reporting just a few days ago:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-police-report

Despite an increased police presence surrounding Calgary’s only supervised drug consumption site, crime and disorder in the immediate area appear to still be on the rise this year, newly released statistics show.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by chemgear

It's been listed in the thread already, but here's the Calgary Police Report:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1559446857

Follow up reporting just a few days ago:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-police-report

Despite an increased police presence surrounding Calgary’s only supervised drug consumption site, crime and disorder in the immediate area appear to still be on the rise this year, newly released statistics show.

I swear to sweet baby jeezus most people don't read these reports.

This report is about a 250 m zone around the SIS. The vast majority of calls were to do with the following:
"Unwanted guests, suspicious persons and checks on welfare were the most frequent types of calls."

Yeah, a lot of needle stabbings. As stated, violence is almost minimal.

Increases in break-ins were part of an overall trend upwards across the City Centre, and vehicular break-ins actually decreased.

So you are still wrong.

EDIT: HA if you go back through the historical data, crime has increased in recent quarters but is still lower for most types of crime across the City Centre than it was in 2016! It just looks like certain types of crime (such as drug use) have increased in - surprise, surprise - the 250 m zone around the SIS.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by peter12

Not really. I think there is some concern about car break-ins, but as is the case in Vancouver, most of the crime is within the street-entrenched community.

Crime can also be mitigated by increased foot patrols. Homelessness can be mitigated through affordable housing.

These problems won't go away just because their presence makes you uncomfortable.

Vancouver has had decades of looking the other way when it came to the city's opioid epidemic, and look where it has gotten them.

This I agree with. The spike in Assaults and Sexual Assaults are likely almost 100% within the SIS user group. However, that is also highly likely, because non users now avoid what was once a busy commercial area.
Surrounding businesses are suffering because customers no longer want to go to those areas, as when you do, you're likely to witness things that make you uncomfortable, and possibly unsafe. Just because the spike is within the user group, doesn't mean it's safe for others to just casually stroll through without second thought.
I frequent the sports store a half block away from the SIS in Lethbridge, and I know I have personally changed my routine when doing so. In the past, I'd take my young son, go in, drop off skates for sharpening, wander around checking things out, and spend anywhere from 30-90 minutes in the store.
Now, after I've had my vehicle broken into twice in the parking lot while I was in the store with my son, and having him witness people overdosing on the curbs, shooting up, and getting into fights, I now stop in, drop off skates, head to the mall or run other errands, swing back to the sports store, run in, grab my skates and head out. My son doesn't even want to come with me anymore, and I don't blame him.

[peter12]

I had no idea as to the level of usage at the Lethbridge injection site. Over 600 visits a day on average and one of the busiest year over year rates in the world!

It definitely sounds like a unique policy failure and a good reminder that harm reduction services need to be implemented with properly and sustainably funded housing and other treatment options.

[Deviaant]

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...ce-2017-report

Hope I linked this right.

[jayswin]

Wow, that is outstanding. And we can't lose sight of the fact that this is the point of safe injection sites.

[Deviaant]

100% success rate. Incredible

[DoubleF]

As someone who actually has skin in the game and own a property that is in direct view of the Chumir, all I am going to say is that I did not oppose the SIS being in the Chumir. I did however feel it was frustrating to be brushed off when certain concerns started mounting and I am really damn frustrated in how the local community has been treated since the opening of the SIS. I don't know about the violence worries, but property damage and trespassing are very real things. Then, there's the worries that it would snowball from there.

The surrounding community essentially accepted the SIS with open arms, but once certain things transpired and a request (generally reasonably requests too) to tweak a few things for harmony for the community and SIS were straight up rejected, I think more and more people in the community are straight up angry with the way the SIS has been handled.

I'm not going to defend my opinion more than that. It's not a hill I'm going to die on. I've put in other comments earlier in this thread, it really hasn't changed much. Call me a NIMBY, I don't care. But this is something actively happening right now, not something that hasn't happened yet and a few vocal individuals are trying to railroad it.

The SIS is necessary. I get that. There was going to be a change, I and others in the area get that. But being made to feel like we're bad people because we wanted a way to co-exist in a more harmonious manner with the SIS is complete BS (a little more police presence, a solution to try and reduce the litter in the area etc.). That's probably why there are a ton of people who supported the SIS at first straight up want it gone from the Chumir. It's far less about the SIS itself than the annoyance of the lack of help and straight up ignoring of the voices from the surrounding community from the Province/City/CPS.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by peter12

I swear to sweet baby jeezus most people don't read these reports.

This report is about a 250 m zone around the SIS. The vast majority of calls were to do with the following:
"Unwanted guests, suspicious persons and checks on welfare were the most frequent types of calls."

Yeah, a lot of needle stabbings. As stated, violence is almost minimal.

Increases in break-ins were part of an overall trend upwards across the City Centre, and vehicular break-ins actually decreased.

So you are still wrong.

EDIT: HA if you go back through the historical data, crime has increased in recent quarters but is still lower for most types of crime across the City Centre than it was in 2016! It just looks like certain types of crime (such as drug use) have increased in - surprise, surprise - the 250 m zone around the SIS.

The crime stats from the area look good because there's a consistent police presence that wasn't there before serving as a deterrent. You can't just read stats from a report in a bubble and not consider how much more of the city's CPS budgets are now dedicated to maintaining a presence in these areas. Obviously it would be an entirely different story if the police expenditure on that area was the same as it was before the site was launched, which is most certainly not the case at all.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Deviaant

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...ce-2017-report

Hope I linked this right.

Holy heck, Lethbridge!

between January 2018 and March this year. Lethbridge has seen the most visits, totalling more than 188,100

If we presume that's counting the most number of days, from January 1st 2018 to March 31st 2019, that's 454 days...

That's 414 visits per day, every day...

That's 17 people per hour, every hour...

That's one person less than every 4 minutes...

There are probably coffee shops that would probably kill (excuse the pun) for that kind of traffic...

[MikePatton]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

The surrounding community essentially accepted the SIS with open arms, but once certain things transpired and a request (generally reasonably requests too) to tweak a few things for harmony for the community and SIS were straight up rejected, I think more and more people in the community are straight up angry with the way the SIS has been handled.

I'd actually like to hear more about this if someone has any info? What were the concerns, and what was the response in more detail? My understanding is that police presence has increased in the area. But this post seems to suggest otherwise?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's very simple. There are people who accept changes in their neighbourhood and people who don't.

Right, so belittling those who are now afraid to walk alone in their community or have had to deal with dangerous and frightening encounters (even once) is the way to function as a society now? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that notion at all.

You decide to open a facility like this in a community, you better be ready to work with all sides to make sure it has the least amount of impact on the community and operates in the most effective manner - for all parties.

The general (and mostly unaffected) population has no right to make residents of these communities feel in the wrong for voicing concerns relating to SIS.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Right, so belittling those who are now afraid to walk alone in their community or have had to deal with dangerous and frightening encounters (even once) is the way to function as a society now? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that notion at all.

You decide to open a facility like this in a community, you better be ready to work with all sides to make sure it has the least amount of impact on the community and operates in the most effective manner - for all parties.

The general (and mostly unaffected) population has no right to make residents of these communities feel in the wrong for voicing concerns relating to SIS.

I've lived in neighbourhoods like this - some of them far worse so put your violin away.

There is nothing wrong with community members seeking to work with the facility, police, and the street-entrenched community to find solutions that help everyone. In fact, that is what often leads to success.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people, those solutions are untenable unless the facility is moved or put under such inconvenient restrictions that it would be impossible for staff to fulfill the facility's mandate.

As reports from both Edmonton and Calgary demonstrate, local impacts are minimal and still remain below historical trends. There may be some increased impact in Calgary within the 250 m zone around the Safe Injection Site, but almost none within the surrounding area.

Lethbridge seems to be facing an entirely different type of problem and I am not equipped with enough information to make any kind of judgement.

But when it comes to Calgary and Edmonton, the complaints are not worth the overall successful impact of the safe injection sites and complaintants would be better off working with city and provincial officials to mitigate impacts.

[peter12]

NIMBYS are the most delightful people.

Just past midnight last Saturday, a white Dodge Ram pickup truck drove past the ARCHES consumption site at 1016 First Avenue South and fired multiple paintballs at staff and clients, striking a female employee and prompting everyone to drop to the ground and hide behind vehicles.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...site-1.5260753

[Locke]

Originally Posted by peter12

NIMBYS are the most delightful people.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...site-1.5260753

Dude, come off it. Sometimes people arent NIMBYs as you so love the term, sometimes things are just not working out.

On one hand you extol the virtues of cooperation between the City, the Facility and the Neighborhood and then on the other immediately dismiss the validity of the concerns of residents as just labeling them NIMBYs.

First of all, at the moment I propose a peter12 exclusive moratorium on the term NIMBY for at least a month. You have to let your Teddy Bear go.

Secondly, I think its perfectly reasonable to expect residents to have valid issues and concerns about the Safe Injection Site without labeling them NIMBYs.

Its already in their backyard. Now they're trying to come up with compromises and solutions to make it easier to live with. Thats not unreasonable but some people are just closing their eyes, plugging their ears and having a tantrum while screaming 'NIMBYs' as though that somehow invalidates legitimate concerns.