10-17-2017, 06:02 AM
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#121
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Farm Team Player
Join Date: Sep 2017
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
I have my doubts because this ruling was based on business practices that have already happened.
The US will view this as a cynical way to get around the tariffs and probably not lift them on the C series.
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Since there are job guarantees for the Quebec aerospace workers.Aren't there always! Then a new assembly line opening in the US. Once Bombardier/Airbus can show 51% US content there is nothing to decide regarding tariffs.
Boeing can go ###### itself..... No, Boeing is entitled to protect itself from dumping. Just as any other WTO country is entitled to those same protections of the WTO agreements.
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10-17-2017, 09:39 AM
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#122
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Norm!
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I do stand corrected on the Tariffs side of things, with the US assembly it will probably force relief of the Tariffs going forward.
I would expect that we're now going to have a aerospace war with Boeing on one side and Bombardier/airbus on the other for the US market.
I would also expect that Boeing has probably hurt itself in the Uk and Canadian Markets.
I also wonder if the C series goes to US manufacture it will cost jobs in Quebec.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 10-17-2017 at 09:43 AM.
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10-17-2017, 02:47 PM
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#123
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lethbridge
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It's almost difficult to believe how badly Boeing bungled this entire scenario.
They made a PR mess plus they chased an upstart with a good product into the arms of their competitor. Put a big dent in their prospects to sell some Super Hornets in the process.
Just ugly.
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10-17-2017, 02:55 PM
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#124
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Norm!
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Lets not forget though that they had originally won this thing and pretty much crushed a competitor. The C series was pretty much on the blocks and done only a few weeks back.
The Super Hornet thing at the end of the day was pretty much a penny deal for them, even though the Trudeau government was willing to pay through the a$$ for them.
The Bonbardier/Airbus deal is a zero dollar deal, which still has to be vetted and approved by the Government.
I think the issue is public relations that they miscalculated, but in their mind time heals all wounds.
Lets not forget that Bombardier wasn't exactly forthright and honest in this whole deal anyways. This wasn't just about big bad boeing beating the crap out of a plucky little guy.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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10-17-2017, 03:53 PM
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#125
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Here
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Was talking so someone who follows this stuff much closer than I do. Part of the deal is that Bombardier gets access to Airbus supply chain connections, marketing expertise, and some other stuff that I don’t recall. According to the articles he was reading, this will really help Bombardier going forward. Apparently, some industry insiders are wowed by the deal that Bombardier got
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10-17-2017, 04:50 PM
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#126
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kelowna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Lets not forget though that they had originally won this thing and pretty much crushed a competitor. The C series was pretty much on the blocks and done only a few weeks back.
The Super Hornet thing at the end of the day was pretty much a penny deal for them, even though the Trudeau government was willing to pay through the a$$ for them.
The Bonbardier/Airbus deal is a zero dollar deal, which still has to be vetted and approved by the Government.
I think the issue is public relations that they miscalculated, but in their mind time heals all wounds.
Lets not forget that Bombardier wasn't exactly forthright and honest in this whole deal anyways. This wasn't just about big bad boeing beating the crap out of a plucky little guy.
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Gotta disagree with you Cap. Bombardier was already real with Euro airlines and Asian airlines to to buy the C Series. Obviously the US tariffs hurt with the Delta deal but it’s not like they didn’t have other avenues to pursue.
In any event, Boeing likely just inflicted more damage on themselves than if they would have just not threw a tantrum and filed the complaint.
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10-17-2017, 05:21 PM
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#127
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Franchise Player
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I can't wait for the antitrust hearings on whether this should be allowed. To have any chance of blocking it, Boeing would need to argue that the 737 isn't competitive in that segment, and that if airbus buys in the combination will monopolize the segment.
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10-17-2017, 05:36 PM
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#128
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizaro86
I can't wait for the antitrust hearings on whether this should be allowed. To have any chance of blocking it, Boeing would need to argue that the 737 isn't competitive in that segment, and that if airbus buys in the combination will monopolize the segment.
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Not going to happen, the Embraer, Sukhoi and in the future Comac all serve the same market segments. Mind you only the Embraer has picked up any sales this side of the world.
I don't think even the most biased Republican backed judge would rule this a monopoly in a market segment that Boeing doesn't even have a product (narrow body 100 seaters)
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10-17-2017, 07:11 PM
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#129
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameOn
Not going to happen, the Embraer, Sukhoi and in the future Comac all serve the same market segments. Mind you only the Embraer has picked up any sales this side of the world.
I don't think even the most biased Republican backed judge would rule this a monopoly in a market segment that Boeing doesn't even have a product (narrow body 100 seaters)
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Anti competitive effects are stricter for mergers. Depending how you define market segment (is 100-130 seat planes it's own segment?), the HHI would be very concentrated. The various Russian and Asian choices don't count as they have zero US market share, which is what the US DOJ cares about. You could make a case that is a real market, especially based on the way delta worded their RFP.
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10-19-2017, 06:54 AM
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#130
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Franchise Player
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I noticed over the past few days boeing has been running a spot on the fan reminding people how 2,000 boeing ee's work in Canada, or something to that effect.
I'd have to think the spot is a bid to sway some kind of public opinion - but what do I know
__________________
If I do not come back avenge my death
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11-03-2017, 09:08 PM
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#131
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Franchise Player
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Boeing must be feeling a lot of heat recently because I actually saw a Boeing commercial air during the news tonight specifically aimed at Canadians talking about how much they support Canada and Canadian communities. It wreaked of desperation to try to repair their image over this tariff deal.
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01-26-2018, 12:38 PM
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#132
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
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Breaking news:
Tom HarringtonVerified account @cbctom 7m7 minutes agoMore
BREAKING: US trade commission throws out Boeing's injury claims against Bombardier & discards duties on C-Series jets
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The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Bigtime For This Useful Post:
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01-26-2018, 12:42 PM
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#133
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime
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Does that actually do much at this point since Airbus became involved?
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01-26-2018, 12:46 PM
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#134
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First Line Centre
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Trading halted on BBD.
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01-26-2018, 12:48 PM
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#135
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Norm!
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That's unexpected, I didn't expect the Trade Commission to go that way.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-26-2018, 12:55 PM
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#136
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First Line Centre
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Must be a few Democrats on there.
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01-26-2018, 02:11 PM
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#137
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Not sure
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That is simply stunning. Wonder if Bombardier maybe should have waited to partner with Airbus?
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01-26-2018, 02:50 PM
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#138
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Powerplay Quarterback
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This whole failed predatory action by Boeing has had the effect of weakening if not destroying their defense business with Canada and strengthening the North American footprint of their biggest rival. So much winning.
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01-26-2018, 02:52 PM
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#139
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Ice Player
This whole failed predatory action by Boeing has had the effect of weakening if not destroying their defense business with Canada and strengthening the North American footprint of their biggest rival. So much winning.
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To be fair, I don't think Boeing was asking for *that* much of a tariff to be imposed, right?
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01-26-2018, 03:01 PM
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#140
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Powerplay Quarterback
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The size of the tariff was cartoonish in its' absurdity. It probably caught Boeing off guard. It didn't stop them from gloating though. It is delightful seeing stupid Trump emboldened corporate welfare establishments getting their asses handed to them by their own trade commission.
Last edited by Red Ice Player; 01-26-2018 at 03:04 PM.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Red Ice Player For This Useful Post:
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