Houston Rockets owner eyeing NHL franchise?

[Young_Guns]

Despite Winnipeg slotting in at #25 on that list, I would bet that if their arena had a larger capacity of say 17,000 seats, they would be in the top 20 on that list. They are playing in a full arena of 15,000 people, opposed to all the teams around them playing at 70% capacity?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

Despite Winnipeg slotting in at #25 on that list, I would bet that if their arena had a larger capacity of say 17,000 seats, they would be in the top 20 on that list. They are playing in a full arena of 15,000 people, opposed to all the teams around them playing at 70% capacity?

Winnipeg charges a high rate on their tickets in their entire building, and because of that is in the top half of the league in revenue. Their building is the right size.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Winnipeg charges a high rate on their tickets in their entire building, and because of that is in the top half of the league in revenue. Their building is the right size.

According to Forbes, Winnipeg is 26th in revenue. Their building might be the right size for Winnipeg, but not for the NHL.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

According to Forbes, Winnipeg is 26th in revenue. Their building might be the right size for Winnipeg, but not for the NHL.

Id like to see that data,

I guess by pure revenue. Maybe I was looking at the wrong year. But the same list puts Edmonton with a mere 5 million more per year in revenue. I guess Edmonton isn't right for the league?

Jets also make a very nice profit with their operating income being 14th. God it must just grind your gears the Jets are a good business proposition in todays NHL hey?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Id like to see that data,

I guess by pure revenue. Maybe I was looking at the wrong year. But the same list puts Edmonton with a mere 5 million more per year in revenue. I guess Edmonton isn't right for the league?

That was the list for 2016 – i.e., the last year the Oilers were in the Northlands Skyreach Rexall Edmonton Civic Dumpster. No duh, that building wasn't right for the league. Guess why they wanted a new one.

Jets also make a very nice profit with their operating income being 14th. God it must just grind your gears the Jets are a good business proposition in todays NHL hey?

Nothing's grinding my gears. You're projecting. I'm just pointing out that the evidence does not fit the narrative here.

But hey, I'm glad the Jets are able to make a profit by sticking strictly to a tight budget and deliberately forgoing the chance of a winning team. If they spent to the cap like most teams, that profit would go *poof* faster than you can say ‘Get me out of Atlanta’.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That was the list for 2016 – i.e., the last year the Oilers were in the Northlands Skyreach Rexall Edmonton Civic Dumpster. No duh, that building wasn't right for the league. Guess why they wanted a new one.



Nothing's grinding my gears. You're projecting. I'm just pointing out that the evidence does not fit the narrative here.

But hey, I'm glad the Jets are able to make a profit by sticking strictly to a tight budget and deliberately forgoing the chance of a winning team. If they spent to the cap like most teams, that profit would go *poof* faster than you can say ‘Get me out of Atlanta’.

lol. So salty. So salty.

Jets are spending closer to the cap than the Oilers and Habs. I guess the Habs are pinching pennies to get by? Get real.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

lol. So salty. So salty.

Jets are spending closer to the cap than the Oilers and Habs. I guess the Habs are pinching pennies to get by? Get real.

I know you are countering an argument about spending, but is that, combined with the results on ice, really something to brag about?

ETA: Actually, they are 6th from the bottom, Montreal is 6th from the top and the Oilers are five places above the Jets. The Jets have $19.5M in cap space. Montreal has $300K. Edmonton has $12K but that's gonna disappear in a hurry next year.

https://leftwinglock.com/salary-cap/

[Jason14h]

https://leftwinglock.com/salary-cap/

This is a terrible site for the teams cap hits!

Eberle is still on Edmonton for F-Sakes! At least do your research correctly

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Dissentowner repeatedly claimed Dallas wasn't a great hockey market, especially in terms of attendance. That's patently false. To say Houston shouldn't be considered simply because hockey doesn't do as well in southern markets disregards some of the fact for a simplified narrative.

I argued that when the Stars are not competitive they are not a great hockey market. I have produced facts based on attendance records when the team was not doing well (near the bottom of the NHL and in the mid 70%) and an article how the team bled money and ran up debt. You on the other hand have provided what exactly? You are building an incredibly nice straw man here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

This is a terrible site for the teams cap hits!

Eberle is still on Edmonton for F-Sakes! At least do your research correctly

I took the first site on google - my bad.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I argued that when the Stars are not competitive they are not a great hockey market. I have produced facts based on attendance records when the team was not doing well (near the bottom of the NHL and in the mid 70%) and an article how the team bled money and ran up debt. You on the other hand have provided what exactly? You are building an incredibly nice straw man here.

Well I provided average attendance data for all 30 teams for the past seven seasons. I'd be happy to share the raw data in a Google Spreadsheet if you'd like?

Also, for a comparison, here is the average attendance data for Dallas specifically along with their divisional, conference and overall standing:

2010-11 (15,073) 9th in West, 16th overall (95 points)
2011-12 (14,227) 10th in West, 18th overall (89 points)
2012-13 (17,063) 11th in West, 21st overall (48 points)
2013-14 (14,658) 8th in West, 16th overall (91 points)
2014-15 (17,350) 10th in West, 19th overall (92 points)
2015-16 (18,376) 1st in West, 2nd overall (109 points)
2016-17 (18,101) 11th in West, 24th overall (79 points)

Aside from the 2015-16 season where they dominated, Dallas had actually been a fairly middling team over the past seven years ranging from 8th to 11th in the West. If their fans stopped attending games in the years they were bad you would expect 2012-13 and 2016-17 to be the two lowest attended seasons. However, both of those seasons were above their seven season average. The two lowest seasons where they dipped into the 14,000 range for attendance they finished 10th and 8th respectively.

So, in fact, at least within the last seven years, there doesn't appear to be a correlation between how well Dallas performs and their overall attendance.

You linked to the wikipedia article with attendance but I'm not sure you actually combed through the data that well. Furthermore, the Forbes article you linked to didn't actually say anything about how Gaglardi has been losing money with the Stars.

With all of that said, I'm not sure how I've exactly created a straw man argument here? I've suggested that fluctuations in the Stars attendance have not been based on their on ice performance and backed that up with data. I also said that "southern markets don't work" narrative isn't true, which I also backed up with figures.

Where's the straw man exactly? Arizona and Carolina haven't worked but neither has Columbus or the New York Islanders.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I took the first site on google - my bad.

Always use CapFriendly. Now that CapGeek is going, it's the best site around.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Always use CapFriendly. Now that CapGeek is going, it's the best site around.

I usually do, but for individual contracts or team's summaries, not a league wide summary. I didn't even know they had that page.

That site has gotten better and more informative, with some FAQs about contracts and definitions.