[GDT] Gio, Bort, and Gus take on Boston at 5PM

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

So Bennett plays probably the best 9 game stretch of his career outside of the playoffs, at centre, with linemates that actually seem to gel with him and his reward is 4th line LW, with a centre that is worse than he is.

What is the fascination with keeping Janko at centre at all costs? move him to the wing and at least let Bennett continue his success down the middle.

It gets even weirder.


Ryan played wing with Jankowski as a centre.
Bennett plays wing with Jankowski as a centre.
When Jankowski is scratched, Reider plays centre.


By applying this logic, then Ward has been playing Reider out of position most of the season, and he is the de facto 3rd line centre!


On a serious note...


Just win!

[foshizzle11]

I agree, just win!

4-3 OT win for the Flames. Backs, Gaudreau, Lucic and Anderson all score tonight.

GFG

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Intentionally? Of course not. But they wouldn't be the first team to overvalue the wrong players and undervalue the right ones. Look back to the Vegas expansion draft and plenty of teams would probably have liked a do-over with the likes of William Karlsson, Jonathan Marchessault, Shea Theodore, Colin Miller, Nate Schmidt, Rielly Smith, and Erik Haula. Well, I suppose the Capitals might look at their Stanley Cup and begrudgingly accept losing Schmidt, but not every team protected all the right players.

Role is a huge aspect of perception and even opportunity to advance in this league. So I am not ashamed of my opinion that that the team hasn't ever truly set the player up to succeed. I want the player to succeed because I think he legitimately can help my team succeed. Appeals to the authority of some unsuccessful coaching staffs mean little to me.

You're right, aside from labelling my response as an appeal to authority. I am a big fan of Sam Bennett, and I am also encouraged by what I saw from him the past month or so. But having said that, I remain convinced that his situation is predominantly of his own making—he has had a propensity to make poor decisions with the puck, and has not done well at utilizing his line mates. He looks MUCH better recently, and the fact that he is finally now doing some of these things from everywhere he is slotted in the lineup is a good sign, but moreover also suggests that his line deployment was most often not the problem.

I would also like to see him centre the fourth line.

[calf]

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I remain convinced that his situation is predominantly of his own making—he has had a propensity to make poor decisions with the puck, and has not done well at utilizing his line mates.

I am of the opinion that, while he needed to learn to utilize his linemates as a 20 year old sophomore (just like Dylan Larkin, Nathan MacKinnon, and countless other precocious talents), his decision making struggles were a function of his role.

Rather than empowering the player to take risks and develop, the team attempted to completely tone down that aspect of his game and it resulted in him playing far more conservatively as a passer compared to his rookie year. This led to him second-guessing his decisions, manifesting in what you alude to.

We took him off the powerplay as a sophomore as well, killing his confidence to make plays with the puck.

We cut his icetime down below the mark where he would be able to make a mistake one shift, and bravely correct it the next the way a Gaudreau was and is allowed to do.

As a center we played him with slower, older wingers, resulting in a cognitive dissonance between playing the attack style inherent to his game and not playing his game at all.

We played him at a position (wing) that stifled his speed through the middle of the ice, whether it was on the wing of Markus Granlund or Mark Jankowski he was playing alongside worse centers than he himself.

I think we've messed up every aspect of his development. Every year he has a stretch where he begins building confidence. Confidence with and without the puck to play his game freely. January 2016. November 2016. April 2017. December 2017. April 2019. February 2020. Probably others that I am forgetting. But every time he starts getting confident, we expect that confidence to just maintain itself. That's not realistic for anyone in the NHL, especially not a young player. Eventually the low quality of linemates like Garnet Hathaway or Tobias Rieder or Troy Brouwer or Curtis Lazar becomes a source of frustration, and those poor decisions and the propensity to play conservatively returns. And then Bennett disappears, looking disinterested and nervous. Instead of building on his stretches of confident play, we basically send him the message that he's just a streaky bottom-of-roster player. There's a feedback loop in his confidence.

A player like Derek Ryan can survive in these circumstances because he's on the tail end of his career and not so worried about individual success, and also has established his own game with guys like Skinner and Mangiapane to where he doesn't second guess himself. He makes good decisions because he doesn't have cognitive dissonance between playing his game and playing a safe game. I don't think a player like Bennett will ever succeed without the freedom to just play his game, and it'll never happen in the role we continue to utilize him.

It's all about confidence.

And I also think the toedrags and such are overblown. For instance you'll probably see Boston's top players get burned a few times tonight and see the puck go the other way. And you'll see Tkachuk, Lindholm, Gaudreau screw up some entries too. They'll just get right back at it the next shift. The next PP.

I have no idea why I typed all that out. I have serious ADHD.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A little nervous about D but not because of who they are. Only because the bottom pairing has had no practice time and just flew in on the red eye and because of Gio's first game back.

Oh well, at least they have an easy opponent in a building it's easy to win in...

Both are experienced d-men and so the expectation would be more about providing stable, dependable clearance of opponents and pucks and breaking up cycles vs breakouts.

If that's ALL they do, it will be fine. Anything Gus provides to the #1PP has got to be an advantage vs the way they've been playing so far.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Both are experienced d-men and so the expectation would be more about providing stable, dependable clearance of opponents and pucks and breaking up cycles vs breakouts.

If that's ALL they do, it will be fine. Anything Gus provides to the #1PP has got to be an advantage vs the way they've been playing so far.

My one reservation is that Forbort make need some time to adjust to playing with a LHS partner.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Ideal scenario for me would be a 2021 D of:

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Anderson
Forbort-Kyllington

Losing Brodie would be a mistake, in my opinion.

You forgot about Valimaki.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

You forgot about Valimaki.

The way things are shaping up I am wondering if Treliving doesn't try to move one of Hanifin or Kylington this summer.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I am of the opinion that, while he needed to learn to utilize his linemates as a 20 year old sophomore (just like Dylan Larkin, Nathan MacKinnon, and countless other precocious talents), his decision making struggles were a function of his role.

Rather than empowering the player to take risks and develop, the team attempted to completely tone down that aspect of his game and it resulted in him playing far more conservatively as a passer compared to his rookie year. This led to him second-guessing his decisions, manifesting in what you alude to.

We took him off the powerplay as a sophomore as well, killing his confidence to make plays with the puck.

We cut his icetime down below the mark where he would be able to make a mistake one shift, and bravely correct it the next the way a Gaudreau was and is allowed to do.

As a center we played him with slower, older wingers, resulting in a cognitive dissonance between playing the attack style inherent to his game and not playing his game at all.

We played him at a position (wing) that stifled his speed through the middle of the ice, whether it was on the wing of Markus Granlund or Mark Jankowski he was playing alongside worse centers than he himself.

I think we've messed up every aspect of his development. Every year he has a stretch where he begins building confidence. Confidence with and without the puck to play his game freely. January 2016. November 2016. April 2017. December 2017. April 2019. February 2020. Probably others that I am forgetting. But every time he starts getting confident, we expect that confidence to just maintain itself. That's not realistic for anyone in the NHL, especially not a young player. Eventually the low quality of linemates like Garnet Hathaway or Tobias Rieder or Troy Brouwer or Curtis Lazar becomes a source of frustration, and those poor decisions and the propensity to play conservatively returns. And then Bennett disappears, looking disinterested and nervous. Instead of building on his stretches of confident play, we basically send him the message that he's just a streaky bottom-of-roster player. There's a feedback loop in his confidence.

A player like Derek Ryan can survive in these circumstances because he's on the tail end of his career and not so worried about individual success, and also has established his own game with guys like Skinner and Mangiapane to where he doesn't second guess himself. He makes good decisions because he doesn't have cognitive dissonance between playing his game and playing a safe game. I don't think a player like Bennett will ever succeed without the freedom to just play his game, and it'll never happen in the role we continue to utilize him.

It's all about confidence.

And I also think the toedrags and such are overblown. For instance you'll probably see Boston's top players get burned a few times tonight and see the puck go the other way. And you'll see Tkachuk, Lindholm, Gaudreau screw up some entries too. They'll just get right back at it the next shift. The next PP.

I have no idea why I typed all that out. I have serious ADHD.

Amen brotha!

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I really wish they'd move Bennett up to the 3rd line and make it Dube - Bennett - Ryan with Ryan taking draws on the right. Lucic can play with Jankowski and Reider.

I think those defensive pairings make a lot of sense.

Agreed. Bennett did great filling in in Ryan's role, and I feel it's determital to Bennett by keeping him with the worst players offensively on the roster.

Team has been letting Dube and Mangiapane develop by playing with players that have offense talent, yet they are so apprehensive in doing it for Bennett. It's so frustrating to see continue to happen.

[BrennyBaller]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The way things are shaping up I am wondering if Treliving doesn't try to move one of Hanifin or Kylington this summer.

I wonder if they could trade Kylington for a similar aged forward who is just stuck behind other guys, similar to Kylington.

Unless you can trade Hanifin for a top line forward, I just don't see them trading a young D signed for 4 more years with 400+ game under his belt unless the return is substantial.

[Fan in Exile]

I don't consider sitting Kylington for Forbort as a step forward short-term or long-term.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The way things are shaping up I am wondering if Treliving doesn't try to move one of Hanifin or Kylington this summer.

Only if he can get at least 2 or 3 of the UFAs signed first. But even then, I doubt it.

[Gaskal]

One of the worst things you can do to a high potential athlete as their coach is to make him second guess himself and lose confidence and we've done Bennett zero favors in that regard.

I'll use the Super Bowl as an example...

One of the more significant "mic'd up" moments was when Mahomes threw his second interception of the night and potentially ruining his team's chances to mount the comeback. Coach Reid immediately had a two second conversation with him and we all know how Mahomes did for the rest of the game.

Reid: "Hey"
Mahomes: "Yeah"
Reid: "You just keep firin out there, son. Just keep firing em"
Mahome: "Yes sir!"

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

But if he can continue that play on the 4th line that is even better. Role 4 lines that can contribute and we are really rolling!

ya but at least keep him at centre if you are moving him down. He clearly is more comfortable and plays a lot better at centre.

[Camazon]

Can anyone recommend somewhere to watch a Flames game in Toronto? The only thing I’d hate more than staring at my phone in this hotel room is having to watch a Leafs game.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Since1984

He needs to continue to play the exact same way he has over the last 9 games consistently regardless of who he plays with. Be a professional, do the job you are getting paid $2.55 million to do.

You want him to play this way consistently so keep his position and linemates consistent so that can happen. There are other factors at play when it comes to consistency.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The way things are shaping up I am wondering if Treliving doesn't try to move one of Hanifin or Kylington this summer.

I do believe Hanifin is in play.

But then you're talking about maybe 2 or 3 signed UFA's on the back end. That will be very expensive and I don't know if Flames have the cap room to handle it. Unless your top 4 is say Gio, Gustafsson, Andersson and Forbort. With Valimaki and scrubs picking up the rear.

That could work cap wise. Let's see how these guys play I guess as I don't really know how good they are or how expensive they would be.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm sure the difference in defensemen i.e. Mark Giordano vs Yelesin / Davidson et al had nothing to do with that.

Statistically, the only bottom pairing d-man that Bennett helped was Davidson…

Lucic-Ryan-Dube-Stone: +3
Lucic-Bennett-Dube-Stone: -2
Lucic-Ryan-Dube-Yelesin: even
Lucic-Bennett-Dube-Yelesin: -1
Lucic-Ryan-Dube-Kylington: +4
Lucic-Bennett-Dube-Kylington: even
Lucic-Ryan-Dube-Davidson: -1
Lucic-Bennett-Dube-Davidson: +1

I’m not saying Bennett has been bad. He looked good and is a legitimate option at center with Lucic and Dube especially if Ryan isn't available. I'm just contending that going back to Ryan is a logical choice and not one that should be met consternation from fans because Bennett has somehow performed better on that line. The simple truth is he hasn't. Not by the eye test or statistically for me.