[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by ignite09

How was Hamilton clearly a problem?

Give Brad a call and ask him?
Watch the interview with Brad on the flames site, he CLEARLY skirts any mention of Dougie whatsoever. He'll mention losing Ferland is unfortunate because he's a warrior for the Flames and then moves on to the acquisitions.

He was a problem, why you cant seem to understand it is beyond me but you can keep asking the same questions over and over. Either way whats done is done and its confirmed to the FLAMES MANAGEMENT GROUP that Dougie was a problem and we all have to move on.

With that being said I think were still 1 UFA signing or trade to solidify our top 6 group:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Vanek/Perron/Neal/Frk
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Lazar - Shore - Ryan


Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington/Kulak

Smith

[Robo]

Geez I'm sure treliving wasn't just like you know what have fox for free I'll throw him in because I'm such a nice guy. Fox was probably the vital part of getting one of these guys if anything ferland is the throw in

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

When the Predators traded Jimmy Vesey's rights, they got a 4th round pick. So, I guess that's a decent approximation of what Fox is worth? From Treliving's comments, it sounds like he plans to become a UFA, so really all Carolina is buying is negotiation time.

And the future benefit for flipping his rights to the team he picks so he doesn’t actually have to play that 4th year. He’ll let Waddell know when he sorts it all out.

[ComixZone]

Pondering the trade, and looking at the post-trade quotes, I get it and I’m pretty pleased with all of this.

1 - Ferland was inconsistent on the top line, but serviceable so I had no issue with him coming back into that role next year. The problem with Ferly was that he couldn’t play down the lineup, as he became completely ineffective when separated from Gaudreau and Monahan. With Ferly up for free agency next year, I was afraid of extending him at 4M+ when we knew he couldn’t play anywhere else and be nearly as effective.

2 - The Fox inclusion initially burned, but hearing that signing was going to be an issue, screw him and I’m happy we got the return we did. He was an excellent pick, and we extracted value from that. I’m pleased.

3 - With Dougie Hamilton, it started to become clear that a lot of the “lack of emotional engagement” was directed towards him when he didn’t speak to the media at the end of the year and then started popping up in these rumours. Tree’s comments/lack of comments on Dougie’s off-ice life seem pretty damning.

In the return:

1 - MaxCowDisease I discussed Monahan/Lindholm a fair bit prior to Lindholm going at 5, and Monahan landing in Calgary at 6. I wanted Monahan, he wanted Lindholm and in the end I would’ve been happy with either so it’s cool to see Lindholm end up here. He’s a much better overall player than Ferland is, and I like the fit on the top line.

2 - Hanifin intrigues me, he’s really young and has a high ceiling. I’m intrigued to see Brodie back on Gio’s side and happy that Hamonic is getting a new partner as he and Brodie was a disaster. I view Hanifin as a way we’ll hopefully get more out of two players already on the roster (Hamonic/Brodie).

And hearing Peters talk, it sounds to me like he’s envisioning a top six of:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Bennett - Backlund - Tkachuk

Which I love seeing because it also gives Jankowski a defensively responsible veteran winger to rely on (Frolik), while giving Bennett good linemates and Tkachuk someone (Bennett) a more offensively inclined player to produce with.

I’m now looking forward to free agency, as I see a few opportunities to build out the bottom 6:

1 - Perron or Neal could be impact signings to play on the left side of Jankowski - Frolik.

2 - Derek Ryan could be a stabilizing force on the 4th line.

My projected bottom 6:

Neal - Jankowski - Frolik
Shore - Ryan - Lazar
Brouwer

with Foo and Mangiapane acting as call-ups for the RW and LW position respectively.

Intriguing times.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'm thinking we see this:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Bennett - Lindholm - UFA/Brouwer
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Lazar - Shore - Foo/rookie

Depending on what that UFA piece is or how camp goes could juggle things. But I still think we need one more offensive threat, ideally RH

I actually think Tre is done, from his comments he doesn't want to pay dollars at UFA time. I don't see Lindholm playing centre for us, I think he will be used as our top RW. I think you will see Tkachuk used as a RW option because I think he scores better on the right side. Move Frolik back to his original position which is LW. I do see Derek Ryan coming in.

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm
Bennett/Jankowski/Tkachuk
Frolik/Backlund/Brouwer
Lazar/Ryan/open spot probably Foo

[devo22]

Hanifin sounds really happy to go to Calgary. Good.

[Ozy_Flame]

Look at it this way. We didn't/don't get to see what Fox can do with the Flames either way, so it's just a big question mark. Who knows how he would have played (or not) in Flames silks.

I'm not opposed to this trade since I am encouraged that Hanafin got 32 points last season. To me, Lindholm is the bigger question mark. I am all kinds of nervous if he has plateaued.

[TheScorpion]

The question definitely lingers for me about Lindholm -- is he a comparable to Bennett? Do we have two of him now?

Also, if Peters wants to try Tkachuk on the right, perhaps the Flames could go after a guy like van Riemsdyk to fill that hole on the left?

[Owen15]

I think there’s a reasonable chance Lindholm will make Johnny and Mony better.

More coming for Tkachuk’s line I’m betting.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm
Bennett/Jankowski/Tkachuk
Frolik/Backlund/Brouwer
Lazar/Ryan/open spot probably Foo

Yeah don't mind this either. Plus gives flexibility for someone to impress at camp.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Come on... obviously Lindholm would score more than Ferland with Monahan/Gaudreau. He's a much better player.

Ferland is a 20 point guy at best if he isn't on the line with Gaudreau/Monahan.

Ferland is also a very big hot/cold guy and a big reason the top line had long cold spells.

You can't have 1/3 guys on your top line be a streaky player. And if you moved Ferland down the lineup he cannot make an impact at all.

There is more to hockey than scoring 21 goals.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Give Brad a call and ask him?
Watch the interview with Brad on the flames site, he CLEARLY skirts any mention of Dougie whatsoever. He'll mention losing Ferland is unfortunate because he's a warrior for the Flames and then moves on to the acquisitions.

He was a problem, why you cant seem to understand it is beyond me but you can keep asking the same questions over and over. Either way whats done is done and its confirmed to the FLAMES MANAGEMENT GROUP that Dougie was a problem and we all have to move on.

You're making stuff up to suit your opinion. There has been no actual facts
showing Hamilton as the problem here. That same Flames management group saw Brouwer and Elliott as the solution, so don't get too confident about trading a no. 1 defenseman as the right solution to this team's woes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The question definitely lingers for me about Lindholm -- is he a comparable to Bennett? Do we have two of him now?

Also, if Peters wants to try Tkachuk on the right, perhaps the Flames could go after a guy like van Riemsdyk to fill that hole on the left?

He is better defensively, takes fewer penalties and wins faceoffs better than Bennett FWIW.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Owen15

Well another jersey headed to goodwill. A gift from a corporate outing to a game when Dougie was a shiny new toy.

Damn that’s not the first, some lucky guy has a nice Bourque jersey too.

Maybe Neal will take #27?

Keep them.
I’ve got a signed David Moss for crying out loud - Even wear it every once in a while!

Two bits on the trade:

Personally originally felt we gave up a bit more than I’d hoped, but as more info. comes out, it seems decent. Both pro and con sides need to wait to see how the players mesh before a definitive decision can be made, but IF our ads live up to potential, and IF Dougie and Ferly have reached their potential, we win the trade. Fox is the wild card, and my very limited viewings had my liking his vision and passing, but not wowed by his skating. He was not as much of a standout as I expected him to be when viewing.

[AC]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The question definitely lingers for me about Lindholm -- is he a comparable to Bennett? Do we have two of him now?

In what way?

Lindholm reminds me of Backlund but several years ahead of his development. Strong 2-way players with offensive upside.

22 year old seasons:
Lindholm: 11G+34A in 72 games (0.63 ppg)
Backlund: 4G+7A in 41 games (0.27 ppg)

23 year old seasons:
Lindholm: 16G+28A in 81 games (0.54 ppg)
Backlund: 8G+8A in 32 games (0.50 ppg)

24 year old seasons:
Lindholm: 2018/2019
Backlund: 18G+21A in 76 games (0.51 ppg)

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by Azure

Ferland is also a very big hot/cold guy and a big reason the top line had long cold spells.

You can't have 1/3 guys on your top line be a streaky player. And if you moved Ferland down the lineup he cannot make an impact at all.

There is more to hockey than scoring 21 goals.

No suggesting you are but I’ve been active on this thread all day so I have a suggestion re: Ferland.

We should celebrate the warrior and wish him the best. Not try to justify this trade by looking to deep into shortcomings. I love the guy and am sad he had to go in this trade. But I’m happy the Flames stood by him, I’m happy for him he’s taken advantage of his first line time and will cash in. I legit love this guy and his “frickin” interviews. I would live to see him back if the situation was right.

I wouldn’t say the same about Hamilton.

[drewtastic]

I mean, two well-articulated posts in a row. What to think, what to think...

( Anyway—great post @ Cali. I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised by this trade.)

[TheScorpion]

Thanks for those stats -- I'll be the first to admit I'm not super intimate with Carolina's personnel. Just on a year-to-year basis I don't see a ton of progression from Lindholm but perhaps his linemate quality is poor. Carolina doesn't have anyone as good as Gaudreau.

[dino7c]

Honestly I think this may work out well...Flames still need more scoring though. If this is it I don't think they are good enough next season

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Keep them.
I’ve got a signed David Moss for crying out loud - Even wear it every once in a while!

Two bits on the trade:

Personally originally felt we gave up a bit more than I’d hoped, but as more info. comes out, it seems decent. Both pro and con sides need to wait to see how the players mesh before a definitive decision can be made, but IF our ads live up to potential, and IF Dougie and Ferly have reached their potential, we win the trade. Fox is the wild card, and my very limited viewings had my liking his vision and passing, but not wowed by his skating. He was not as much of a standout as I expected him to be when viewing.

I just wished I had a Ferland jersey rather than a Hamilton.