A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

^^
I'm still enjoying the show, but I can't disagree with anything in that account of where it's at. I accept that it has entered into a different stage and is much more fluff than before, but it has to wrap up some time and needs to move quick to do that. In some ways, you could say the show has been crippled by a massive budget.

Yeah - it’s frustrating though to see half of a 70 minute episode taken up with drinking games and smouldering “Hey, Dany’s Uneasy” glances. Not the best use of the limited time.

Unfortunately, I guess it didn’t really get better after the extended celebratory drinks.

Then there was Bronn. Finds Jamie and Tyrion alone in a room as he marches into Winterfell with a loaded crossbow. Then he was promised a giant kingdom by two characters who can’t promise kingdoms. And... exit stage left.

[Looch City]

Everything is just super rushed. Man I thought Season 7 was a bit fast but maybe not too bad...then we get Season 8.

At the very least it should have been split into two mini seasons.

8A - 6 episodes leading up to and end of Night King
8B - 6 episodes leading up to and end of Cersei and who sits on the thrones, etc.

[FlameOn]

Someone ran the math on the ballistics Euron's ballistae would have been needed to tear apart Dany's fleet with essentially no drop over a km distance.

Basically the ballista bolts would have had to be fired with a force of 48.6 million Newtons, or slightly more than the total thrust of the the Saturn V rocket first stage, and exited the ballista at 6x the speed of sound.

Assuming:

Length of ballista bolt = 3 m
Diameter of the bolt = 7 cm
Density of steel = 7700 kg/m3
Volume of bolt = 0.014 m3
Weight of bolt = 7700 kg/m3 (0.014 m3) = 105 kg
Horizontal distance bolt traveled (dx) = 1,000 m

Vertical drop (dy) = 2 m

Calculations:
dy = Vi*t+0.5*ay*t2
Vi = 0
ay = 9.81 m/s2 , therefore;
dy = 0.5*9.81 m/s2 *t2 = 1.5 m
1.5 m = 4.9 m/s2*t2
0.31 s2 = t2
t = 0.55 seconds
dx = Vi*t+05*ax*t2
ax = 0, therefore;
dx = Vi*t
dx = Vi*0.55 sec = 1,000 m
1,000 m = Vi*0.55 sec
Vi = 1,818 m/s

Initial velocity of the bolt during air travel = final velocity (Vf) of the bolt exiting the ballista, and;

a = Vf2/2d
a = (1,818 m/s)2 /2*(3 m)
a = 463,000 m/s2
F = m*a
F = 105 kg (463,000 m/s2)
F = 48.6 Million Newtons

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm...istae_physics/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V

[Matata]

I was hoping GoT would wrap up before it finally devolved into pure schlock, but here we are, last episode felt like a big budget soap opera.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Until the latter half of season 7 (and continuing into season 8) I would have suggested that GOT was in the convo for best series ever.

Not anymore, too bad the creators Benioff and Weiss have only themselves and their demonstrably brutal writing skills to blame.

What a laughable debacle. A sad disappointment. Some are now comparing GOT to Lost.

A comparison to the best network Drama isn’t really a bad thing. Lost was one of the early last pieces of mono culture.

What do all these lore building types of shows all the way back to The Lord of the Rings have in common? The endings are far less satisfying than the expansion of lore. The ending you propose is that Dany comes in lays siege to the Red Keep and burns it down without resistance, then waits at the wall and torches the wites as they pile through. The plot complaints in 7 and 8 have been mainly things they have done to weaken Dany.

Anything else underplays her strategic advantage. The complaint would have been that Dany Sue comes from overseas and just makes the entire previous six seasons meaningless or Dues Ex Drogon ruins show.

I think they could have done better however complaints are getting ridiculous like the poster above wondering why Bran doesn’t tell them what’s going on in Kings Landing. Has he ever shown that he would use his ability for the politics of man? He essentially spent last and this year maneuvering people to kill the night king and not caring about anything else.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Someone ran the math on the ballistics Euron's ballistae would have been needed to tear apart Dany's fleet with essentially no drop over a km distance.

Basically the ballista bolts would have had to be fired with a force of 48.6 million Newtons, or slightly more than the first stage of the Saturn V rocket and exited the ballista at 6x the speed of sound.


https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm...istae_physics/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V

Not to mention how incredibly fast they were able to reload them. Euron didn't have that many ships, so Dany should have been able to circle around and dodge their first volley, then completely obliterate them while they reload. But they're firing off bolts like the Mythbusters' gattling arrows. God that scene was just so stupid, but it's par for the course now

[Flash Walken]

I'm just watching now hoping everyone dies.

If there was another season after this, I'm not sure I would watch it.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm just watching now hoping everyone dies.

If there was another season after this, I'm not sure I would watch it.

This is how I felt watching season 7 of The Walking Dead. I gave up in the middle since there was no end in sight and the show was only getting worse. I'm only sticking with GOT because the end is so near and there will at least be some kind of closure

I haven't gutted out a final season of a show this bad since Dexter. So disappointing

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by GGG

A comparison to the best network Drama isn’t really a bad thing. Lost was one of the early last pieces of mono culture.

What do all these lore building types of shows all the way back to The Lord of the Rings have in common? The endings are far less satisfying than the expansion of lore. The ending you propose is that Dany comes in lays siege to the Red Keep and burns it down without resistance, then waits at the wall and torches the wites as they pile through. The plot complaints in 7 and 8 have been mainly things they have done to weaken Dany.

Anything else underplays her strategic advantage. The complaint would have been that Dany Sue comes from overseas and just makes the entire previous six seasons meaningless or Dues Ex Drogon ruins show.

I think they could have done better however complaints are getting ridiculous like the poster above wondering why Bran doesn’t tell them what’s going on in Kings Landing. Has he ever shown that he would use his ability for the politics of man? He essentially spent last and this year maneuvering people to kill the night king and not caring about anything else.

It's not the endings I have a problem with. It's how you get there that matters. I don't mind that Arya killed the NK, or that Dany is about to be a bad guy. I don't mind that Euron took out a dragon and got the jump on the fleet, or that Arya and the Hound are on private business in the middle of a war.

Just make it smart and interesting. Give the characters some intelligence, and keep things semi-consistent in the world. It does feel rushed, but we've had 1.5 episodes of limited time devoted to pure exposition in this season - exposition that would've been used to explore motivations, build characters, and foreshadow plots in previous seasons - instead we have drinking games and deus ex machina. It doesn't need to feel - or be - nearly as rushed as it is. Not to mention, the writers decided to cut away from Jon's big reveal to Sansa and Arya. FFS - these are your protagonists doing something very important. Sansa then breaks her promise to Jon in the next two minutes.

[FireFly]

I don't get why people want Bran to do anything. He is doing stuff just by sitting there. He'll be the keystone to whomever gets the crown in the end.



Also, I'm excited to see what goes down between Jon and Dany. There's some serious foreshadowing there with Dany telling him to choose her or his family and he very clearly chose his family when he told them.



I also don't understand the uproar over having the battle with the Night King over. It's the Game of Thrones and he never sat on one. There is only one throne that matters and it's in King's Landing. The Battle with him set the stage for Dany's forces to be depleted, nothing more. Cersei used the battle to her advantage by staying out of it while Dany and Jon both increased their standing with the Lords of the North through it.

[Nyah]

So is this thread for complaining and nitpicking only now, or...?

[PsYcNeT]

I tend to wonder if the long-form storytelling in premium TV over the last 15 years has really warped story-speed expectations. Used to be a 2.5 hour film was intolerable to the general public, but now everyone complains that a TV show didn't spend 2 episodes showing the logistics behind the grain transportation network for importation of goods into the Northern kingdoms, and the tariff and levy system required for safe passage.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Nyah

So is this thread for complaining and nitpicking only now, or...?

I'm happy to read what people liked about what's going on, and people's theories. I hope it doesn't turn into the thread of people who complain about the people complaining again, though.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by nik-

I simultaneously like that character and hate how he's used. The actor is great, I like how he's portrayed. His first ambush in the dark, lame, but ok, I can buy it. Captain ambush on a flying target on a clear day is a little much. He can see a flying dragon, she can't see a fleet of ships?

This is my single biggest gripe about the episode.

There should be precisely zero scenarios where a slow moving fleet of ships can surprise you when you have air superiority.

So you're telling me that at no point in the several week journey to the south did Dany think to scout ahead for possible dangers (i.e. a fleet of ships that has kicked your ass repeatedly)?

How does that even happen? She should have known about them weeks ahead of time, and then done something smart like, I dunno, ambushing them at night and destroying their entire fleet.

But nope, the Queen of Dragons, military genius, is now the Queen of Dragon, because....?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

A comparison to the best network Drama isn’t really a bad thing. Lost was one of the early last pieces of mono culture.

What do all these lore building types of shows all the way back to The Lord of the Rings have in common? The endings are far less satisfying than the expansion of lore. The ending you propose is that Dany comes in lays siege to the Red Keep and burns it down without resistance, then waits at the wall and torches the wites as they pile through. The plot complaints in 7 and 8 have been mainly things they have done to weaken Dany.

Anything else underplays her strategic advantage. The complaint would have been that Dany Sue comes from overseas and just makes the entire previous six seasons meaningless or Dues Ex Drogon ruins show.

I think they could have done better however complaints are getting ridiculous like the poster above wondering why Bran doesn’t tell them what’s going on in Kings Landing. Has he ever shown that he would use his ability for the politics of man? He essentially spent last and this year maneuvering people to kill the night king and not caring about anything else.

It's disappointing because the show has shown it knows how to conclude major storylines and character arcs in the past. For example the initial plot was between Robb Stark, Joffrey, and the Baratheons. All were concluded in very satisfying ways. It's the new writers that have taken over since, and it's just not as good.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, I have to admit that my thoughts while they were sailing were "aren't they worried about being attacked by Euron?" And then they showed the drsgons and I thought "oh yeah, man I'm dumb, the dragons would be flying ahead and scouting and would see any attack coming easi......."

BAM! Down goes a dragon and I'm like WTF??

Also not sure why Cersei wouldn't have Tyrion filled with arrows immediately after executing Missandei. Doesn't make much sense, but oh well.

I'm still enjoying watching it for the most part though.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I'm happy to read what people liked about what's going on, and people's theories. I hope it doesn't turn into the thread of people who complain about the people complaining again, though.

Right...except it's just been a thread of negativity and complaining for the last 20+ pages. Instead of talking about the awesome things that happened in the last episode, we're posting examples of how mathematically difficult it would be to hit a dragon with a ballistic spear (just one example of many complaints). I get that people have gripes, but this thread has been particularly depressing since the beginning of the season.

Sucks the life and the fun right out of it for me but apparently I'm in the minority, so carry on.

[DFO]

Underwhelming. That's my feelings on this season and last. It's too bad the series will limp to the finish line.

[Tron_fdc]

Why are people trying to use physics to explain the speed of ballista bolts? This is a show filled with witches, the undead, dragons, faceless assassins....the list goes on.
Maybe the bolts were magic. Maybe giants loaded them with rubber bands made from babies. Who knows. Who cares.

Give me blood, death, gratuitous sex scenes with a clever imp, and a bad ass duo of some oversized neanderthal and a small girl with a sword called needle. Turn em loose WWE style and let the best man win. Hopefully with lots of gore.

If that lights the hair of GOT nerds on fire so be it. I didn't read the books, never will, and really just want to get stoned and entertained on a Sunday night.

IMO kill everyone!!!

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Instead of talking about the awesome things that happened in the last episode

Go ahead! Happy to hear your thoughts. Rings kind of hollow if you want others to do it however.