Hit by Trouba on Dal Colle

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Come on man. That type of hit doesn't even happen once a game. Eliminating that won't change anything. How many times have we seen a Flames player flattened like that this season? I recall Backlund last season from Dumba but that type of open ice hit isn't something that happens a lot these days and can be easily removed without changing anything.

Go watch beer league hockey if you don't like hits like this...

THere is no other way for trouba to have hit him, and liek Resolute said "if you want to get rid of this hit then you have to eliminate all body checks."

[Jiri Hrdina]

Why should he have to "go watch beer hockey" instead of arguing for how the sports needs to evolve?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why should he have to "go watch beer hockey" instead of arguing for how the sports needs to evolve?

The whole point is that the sport doesn't need to evolve to remove hits like that. It is part of hockey and I for one don't want to watch a game without hits like that and I propose that for someone who feels very strongly that hockey would be better without that kind of hit, he should maybe try watching non-contact beer league hockey

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

The whole point is that the sport doesn't need to evolve to remove hits like that. It is part of hockey and I for one don't want to watch a game without hits like that and I propose that for someone who feels very strongly that hockey would be better without that kind of hit, he should maybe try watching non-contact beer league hockey

But people enjoy a lot of different parts of the sport, and want to see it change to remove the unnecessary dangers.
Someone shouldn't have to give up something they enjoy just because there is part of it they don't.

[dissentowner]

Big hits are part of the game, it is a physical sport and you know what you signed up for when you got into it. That is like saying we should remove tackling from football and have them play flag football instead.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Big hits are part of the game, it is a physical sport and you know what you signed up for when you got into it. That is like saying we should remove tackling from football and have them play flag football instead.

The reckoning is coming for football.
Hockey can and will evolve.
I'm not sure what the path forward is for football.

Big hits do not need to be part of hockey.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But people enjoy a lot of different parts of the sport, and want to see it change to remove the unnecessary dangers.
Someone shouldn't have to give up something they enjoy just because there is part of it they don't.

I guess we will have to disagree that hitting is an "unnecessary danger"

Probably should make them remove the knife boots they wear as well, those are pretty dangerous

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I guess we will have to disagree that hitting is an "unnecessary danger"

Probably should make them remove the knife boots they wear as well, those are pretty dangerous

These are such lazy and cliche arguments.
No - because you need skates to be able to play the sport. You also need sticks.
You don't need big hits.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The reckoning is coming for football.
Hockey can and will evolve.
I'm not sure what the path forward is for football.

Big hits do not need to be part of hockey.

Well that is just ridiculous. You think they are going to take hitting out of football? Not bloody likely. Hockey may evolve but the fans love the big hits and it isn't going anywhere, guaranteed. Again, players know what they are getting into, they don't have to play in the NHL. A lot of people choose careers that contain a risk to their health. I am not even sure how you stop big hits? What constitutes a big hit? Is it to the officials discretion? That would be a cluster bleep. I think you would have totally eliminate body checking in which case the game will be crap and half of the NHL fanbase would quit watching.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well that is just ridiculous. You think they are going to take hitting out of football? Not bloody likely. Hockey may evolve but the fans love the big hits and it isn't going anywhere, guaranteed. Again, players know what they are getting into, they don't have to play in the NHL. A lot of people choose careers that contain a risk to their health. I am not even sure how you stop big hits? What constitutes a big hit? Is it to the officials discretion? That would be a cluster bleep. I think you would have totally eliminate body checking in which case the game will be crap and half of the NHL fanbase would quit watching.

As I've said, for hockey - the definition of checking needs to evolve to be about getting possession of the puck and anything more than that - is a penalty. So more about angles and stick checks than physical body checking.

For football - I'm not sure but I see it as a significant long-term risk to the sport that is already playing out at the grassroots levels where participation rates are falling. The tipping point will be as we learn more about the damage of not single huge hits, but the cumulative impacts of hundreds and thousands of small hits.

But know I don't know how football evolves.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As I've said, for hockey - the definition of checking needs to evolve to be about getting possession of the puck and anything more than that - is a penalty. So more about angles and stick checks than physical body checking.

For football - I'm not sure but I see it as a significant long-term risk to the sport that is already playing out at the grassroots levels where participation rates are falling. The tipping point will be as we learn more about the damage of not single huge hits, but the cumulative impacts of hundreds and thousands of small hits.

But know I don't know how football evolves.

As I said, I believe if you took body contact out of the NHL the league is done. You might disagree but I seriously think half the fan base walks. Then somebody else would start a league with hits and the NHL would be hooped. So many fans relate to physical play, Flyer fans, Boston fans, hell the Preds fans call their city Smashville. Taking body checking out would not evolve the game, it would kill it

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

As I said, I believe if you took body contact out of the NHL the league is done. You might disagree but I seriously think half the fan base walks. Then somebody else would start a league with hits and the NHL would be hooped. So many fans relate to physical play, Flyer fans, Boston fans, hell the Preds fans call their city Smashville. Taking body checking out would not evolve the game, it would kill it

Intimidation and physical play by way of heavy hits are just as much as part of the game as skill and shooting. It doesn’t have to be a dirty crushing hit nor is the purpose just to separate the man from the puck.

For example when the puck is on your stick and you see Lucic or even a player like Forbort coming at you. There is an element which will cause some players to not go hard in the corner or corral the puck. If you do, there is a heavy big clean crushing hit coming.

That is a part of the game. Just as an open ice hit to ensure an opposing player doesn’t feel they can drop their head to make a toe drag.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Intimidation and physical play by way of heavy hits are just as much as part of the game as skill and shooting.

I mean, this is just clearly not true. The only core requirements to make the game make sense is to be able to score goals. Shooting is how you do that. You can very easily make body checking illegal and still have a game that is recognizably the sport of ice hockey - in fact, lots of junior leagues, amateur leagues and women's hockey do exactly that. If you were to remove "skill" and "shooting", there wouldn't be a game.

The problem is that people wouldn't find the game as entertaining, or at least enjoyable, if it didn't have the hitting in it. The argument that the other side of this is making is that losing that enjoyment / entertainment value to the people for whom that is important (and it is a lot of people) is a sacrifice that must be made so that there is considerably less head trauma involved in playing the sport.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I mean, this is just clearly not true. The only core requirements to make the game make sense is to be able to score goals. Shooting is how you do that. You can very easily make body checking illegal and still have a game that is recognizably the sport of ice hockey - in fact, lots of junior leagues, amateur leagues and women's hockey do exactly that. If you were to remove "skill" and "shooting", there wouldn't be a game.

The problem is that people wouldn't find the game as entertaining, or at least enjoyable, if it didn't have the hitting in it. The argument that the other side of this is making is that losing that enjoyment / entertainment value to the people for whom that is important (and it is a lot of people) is a sacrifice that must be made so that there is considerably less head trauma involved in playing the sport.

Let me correct myself, I should have clarified in that I dont mean its as important as skating and shooting. For that I agree with you. However in my opinion, and that is what we both have are opinions, its a part of the game. To put it in comparison as to what you used as an example, as to what would be in the game. There are some beer leagues that have outlawed slap shots, now removing it can work for some, as the game of hockey is still for the most part recognizable, much in the same realm as removing intimidation and physical play. I personally would not have wanted to play in either game during my competitive hockey playing days.

As I said I dont know what the future holds, but for now its not like there is a large majority of players/fans who want to eliminate the physical and intimidation from the game. Though until more polls and studies are done with the players, fans and owners. The onus I feel is on the side of those who want to remove it from the game to do the work to have it gone.

With respect to the junior leagues which have outlawed checking and made it illegal Corsi, which leagues do you speak of and how many of those leagues are drawing numbers or feeding the pro leagues with players? I am actually curious to know. I understand the womens game being illegal to check, but the popularity of the pro sport from a business perspective is abysmal, though that has as much to do with the overall quality of the game(which is teenage boys level), not just the lack of checking.

[Gaskal]

Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I've personally zero interest in watching NFL Touch Football or NHL under IIHF rules

[dissentowner]

Yes, there is no checking when women had their own league. How did that work out for them? I bet if there was hitting that league would still be here and making a profit.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But people enjoy a lot of different parts of the sport, and want to see it change to remove the unnecessary dangers.
Someone shouldn't have to give up something they enjoy just because there is part of it they don't.

Proposal: Give players like Dal Colle a 10 minute misconduct for putting themselves in such a dangerous position.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes, there is no checking when women had their own league. How did that work out for them? I bet if there was hitting that league would still be here and making a profit.

To be honest with the amount of games in addition to a multitude of better hockey options available (NHL, CHL, Jr. A, Jr. B, CIS, ACAC, AAA midget, Ranchlands Senior Mens, The now limited Chinook league and to a lesser extent Jr. C), it would still not be profitable, even with Checking.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Intimidation and physical play by way of heavy hits are just as much as part of the game as skill and shooting. It doesn’t have to be a dirty crushing hit nor is the purpose just to separate the man from the puck.

For example when the puck is on your stick and you see Lucic or even a player like Forbort coming at you. There is an element which will cause some players to not go hard in the corner or corral the puck. If you do, there is a heavy big clean crushing hit coming.

That is a part of the game. Just as an open ice hit to ensure an opposing player doesn’t feel they can drop their head to make a toe drag.

You can intimidate with a hit that doesn't involve a padded armored shoulder to the head. You can hit someone in the open without giving them whiplash. It just means you can't put someone on the trolley tracks and blow them up -- same way you can't hit from behind currently, because it's just known to be too dangerous.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by sempuki

You can intimidate with a hit that doesn't involve a padded armored shoulder to the head. You can hit someone in the open without giving them whiplash. It just means you can't put someone on the trolley tracks and blow them up -- same way you can't hit from behind currently, because it's just known to be too dangerous.

This argument just doesn't work. You don't know whether someone is going to be "blown up" before committing to an open ice hit. It's not at all like hitting from behind - in that situation, you see numbers, and you hold up. An open ice hit that doesn't end in someone getting destroyed and one that does look very, very similar before the collision occurs. You have a split second to go for a hit, and half of that is just instinct - you do not have time to analyze if this is the type of hit that will be traumatic. You just know you're about to run into them at speed. What determines whether someone is going to get hit, or get creamed, is at least as much in the control of the person being hit as the person doing the hit.

If your rule outlaws an outcome from an open-ice hit that I only have partial control over, I'm just not going to line anyone up for that type of hit at all anymore. And I understand that for some people, that's an acceptable outcome to make the game safer... I'm just not sure I agree that the cost / benefit is enough to justify that change, for me.