[Signing] Flames sign Kadri (7 years, $7m AAV)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, TB and the Avs have an elite Dman. Is Pietrangelo elite? I dunno. He played well in the Blues' cup run, but 41 points isn't remarkable. Rasmus had 50 last year. The Caps had Carlson who has had a gtreat year that year and since has also posted great numbers. But prior to that he wasn't considered elite and scored in the 30s.

Maybe Weegar has yet another gear, or Rasmus or Hanifin. But moreover - why is an elite Dman necessary versus an extremely deep D corps.

Necessary? It's not necessary. The 2017 Penguins didn't even have Letang.

But relying on more guys (six defenseman for instance) is requiring more guys to play perfect minutes. I think having a defenseman who can log 28+ minutes at a very high, mistake-free level in a 60 minute playoff game against the other team's best players allows your second pair to log 22+ unexposed, relatively mistake-free minutes against the other teams' middle-roster players, and third pairs used sparingly maximizes your chance, because no one, not even the Flames, have three pairs that are elite in ALL situations. Even with last year's Flames, the third pair saw relatively sheltered usage.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, TB and the Avs have an elite Dman. Is Pietrangelo elite? I dunno. He played well in the Blues' cup run, but 41 points isn't remarkable. Rasmus had 50 last year. The Caps had Carlson who has had a gtreat year that year and since has also posted great numbers. But prior to that he wasn't considered elite and scored in the 30s.

Maybe Weegar has yet another gear, or Rasmus or Hanifin. But moreover - why is an elite Dman necessary versus an extremely deep D corps.

Weegar wouldn't be at Makar or Hedman level...very few dmen are.

But I would guess his 5v5 numbers and underlying metrics are very comparable to Pietrangelo and Carlson the years they won the cup.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think it would be:

Huby-kadri-toffoli
Mangi-lindy-dube

If we went that route.

I think it's three pairs to start and see if there is chemistry

Huberdeau - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Kadri
Backlund - Coleman

Then you have to find a third to plug in ... Toffoli, Dube, Pelletier and my guess is a new acquisition using the defense depth.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A precedent is only as good as the underlying reasons. But tell me - was Carlson considered elite before a cup run? Was Pietrangelo? Was Letang?

Pietrangelo -yes
Letang- yes
Carlson- I don’t know if he is truly elite but he stepped up

If you use last year points then Tkachuk is truly generational lol

Andersson and Hanifin both had problems on the PP, let alone leading it.
They have a long way to go

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Necessary? It's not necessary. The 2017 Penguins didn't even have Letang.

But relying on more guys (six defenseman for instance) is requiring more guys to play perfect minutes. I think having a defenseman who can log 28+ minutes at a very high, mistake-free level in a 60 minute playoff game against the other team's best players allows your second pair to log 22+ unexposed, relatively mistake-free minutes against the other teams' middle-roster players, and third pairs used sparingly maximizes your chance, because no one, not even the Flames, have three pairs that are elite in ALL situations. Even with last year's Flames, the third pair saw relatively sheltered usage.

Congratulations, I believe you now own the CP longest sentence record with an impressive 6 commas.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by devo22

I guess I'm more lukewarm to the moves yesterday than most. I wanted the Flames to stay away from Kadri because I think his 21-22 season was a mirage and I fully expect him to come back to earth. I've said a number of times on here that whoever is signing him to a fat long-term deal is going to regret that pretty quickly, and I pray I'm wrong here. 7 x 7 is not quite as bad as I had feared, but it's still pretty bad. Also certainly hoped to use the Florida 1st in a different way too. I get cap space is a prime asset these days, but so is a 1st ... having to move one to get Monahan off the books and sign Kadri still stings in my book.

All of that being said, I do think we're a better team than last season now, or at least more balanced. We replaced one great winger with another, upgraded C and D massively at the cost of one great winger. That still seems like a bloody good turnaround to me ... so while I'm not all that excited about yesterday's moves in isolation, I think it's fine in the big picture of things. Hopefully Kadri makes me eat crow big-time

I for sure felt that whoever signed Kadri would regret it with his career year.

That hasn't changed.

What has changed is the Flames going full win now mode, and with that his contract pushes the rest of the chips in.

I'm happy he didn't get into the $9M club, as $7M is a secondary player money now, not your franchise go to.

Hoping he can have another star season or two before he declines, and also hope the decline is into a Michael Backlund role which would be manageable as well.

But you have to like how the next three years look (hoping four).

[Zulu29]

First chance to post in this thread but just wanna say how stoked I am to have Naz on our team!!! Absolute warrior and a beast in the playoffs. That guy knows how to win. Still amazed that Tre was able to pull this off, my hats off to him, unreal offseason. The aggression from management this summer has been fantastic and finally any suggestion that Edwards is cheap or not overly invested in the team or that Tre is a mediocre GM have been put to bed. Tre is a damn wizard and will not be stopped.

Welcome to the Flames Naz, can’t wait for puck drop in October!

[jg13]

Any news on his media availability today?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I for sure felt that whoever signed Kadri would regret it with his career year.

That hasn't changed.

What has changed is the Flames going full win now mode, and with that his contract pushes the rest of the chips in.

I'm happy he didn't get into the $9M club, as $7M is a secondary player money now, not your franchise go to.

Hoping he can have another star season or two before he declines, and also hope the decline is into a Michael Backlund role which would be manageable as well.

But you have to like how the next three years look (hoping four).

Yes, if he keeps up, Kadri @7M is a good deal in the next 3-4 years, especially for win now team

After that, I plan to move to a tropical island, so who cares lol

[mile]

Originally Posted by jg13

Any news on his media availability today?

12:30pm today

[The Yen Man]

I say, life's too short to worry about 7 years down the road. If the Flames prolong their compete window by 3 or 4 years with the off season moves so far, I'm all in. I'd much rather cheer for a team that has a chance each year to make the playoffs than continually cheering for a tank / rebuild that goes no where (looking at you Buffalo, and Edmonton had they not got lucky and got McDavid).

[Kovaz]

I think it's hard to overstate how huge it'll be to have our top 3 centers all be above-average skaters that can carry the puck and be competent defensively. Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Monahan (when healthy) were all great players, but they definitely imposed constraints on how you put your lineup together - Gaudreau needed help forechecking, Monahan needed a winger that can carry the puck for him, Tkachuk needed 2 good skaters.


Looking at our lineup now, I just see so much more versatility, like it almost doesn't matter how the lines shake out.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Which means the contract can be bought out in years 5-7 for cap savings.

Here are the cap implications if the Flames were to buyout the end of the contract:

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Pietrangelo -yes
Letang- yes
Carlson- I don’t know if he is truly elite but he stepped up

If you use last year points then Tkachuk is truly generational lol

Andersson and Hanifin both had problems on the PP, let alone leading it.
They have a long way to go

I think you need to go look at the first two players' numbers before they first won a cup. AP was a 50 point guy, which is really good, but not world class - he played in one all star game in 2018 before winning the cup. And Letang had a 50 point season the year before but prior to that never got past 33 (in his sophomore year). He never got into an All Star game before the cup win.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I feel like it's a virtual guarantee for the contract to be bought out in 2028. No offense to Kadri, but having only one extra year of cap hit @ $2.3 for a nearly $5 million cap relief is a no brainer on a 38 year old player.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Here are the cap implications if the Flames were to buyout the end of the contract:

I could easily see a 2027 buyout.

Cap is likely $90M at that point and a $2M penalty wouldn't be the end of the world.

[CroFlames]

OK so I was part of the blow it up crowd. I'll tell you what, it's getting annoying having people hurr durr'ing and throwing it in our faces now like the rebuild option was ridiculous. It was not.

Yes, Flames had a fantastic year (still fell short of expectations) then it became apparent our two BEST players (100 pt men) were leaving. At that point in time, pivoting to maximize returns on your remaining assets with a deep draft upcoming was a reasonable direction. Flames fell short of expectations WITH those guys, so without them, things looked grim. A rebuild at that time would have given them a great chance to build a contender again.

The Tkachuk trade changed everything. Literally even the most positive Flames fan did not think that would be a possibility. I'd submit it was the greatest fleecing since in the cap era. The Kadri signing was also unlikely, as all signs pointed toward NYI. Don't sit there thinking you saw this coming.

I think the Flames are more competitive now than last season, but at the expense of trading younger stars for older stars. This will hamper their chances at maximizing returns when the inevitable rebuild happens, but if they win Cup(s) in the meantime, none of that matters.

I like Boomer but please don't act like you KNEW Brad was going to pull this off.

[Bingo]

Old but interesting article on forward aging curves.

The primary assist guy ages better (pertinent for both Kadri and Huberdeau)

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/...-forward-types

Overall, if you go shopping for offense in unrestricted free agency, a passer is a better bet for a multi-year contract than a scorer, and a shooter is a bit more reliable than a sniper. As always, these are population averages and your mileage may vary, but that'd be the starting point for my projections.

Huberdeau of course is a passer, Kadri a hybrid passer shooter, not a sniper.

[peter12]

Kadri is good. Like many posters here, I am really glad to see Calgary taking charge of the offseason game. Too many times it seemed like we were caught on the sidelines. Next season is gonna be guuuuuuuud.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

OK so I was part of the blow it up crowd. I'll tell you what, it's getting annoying having people hurr durr'ing and throwing it in our faces now like the rebuild option was ridiculous. It was not.

It was never that the re-build option was ridiculous. In fact I think there was quite broad support on this community for it.
I think the primary push back was that most people recognized it wasn't plausible. Meaning, the team simply wasn't going to do it based on where the core of this team is/was, and the historic behaviors of the ownership group.

It's the difference between asking SHOULD the team re-build and WILL the team re-build.

As I've said, you can debate if they are picking the right strategy, but at some point it only makes sense to shift the debate to how well they are executing the strategy that they've selected.