I agree to an extent, but you have one of the top 3 most powerful Jedi ever and Darth Freaking Vader facing off. You should see some powerful and unprecedented force fighting going on. I'll forgive them for the Obi Wan series, but I draw the line at the sequels.
For the record the top-3 Jedi of all time are Luke, Yoda and ObiWan. HM to Mace Windu.
Sidious beat Yoda, Sidious beat Mace. Vader killed Obi-Wan. Luke defeated Vader using the darkside of the Force. Sidious wiped out the Jedi. Luke became all mopey and Sidious came back from the dead.
Sidious > all Jedi.
Anakin killed Sidious Anakin is the most powerful of the Jedi.
Of course in the long run, the Darkside will always win.
Quote:
“The dark is generous, and it is patient. It is the dark that seeds cruelty into justice, that drips contempt into compassion, that poisons love with grains of doubt. The dark can be patient, because the slightest drop of rain will cause those seeds to sprout. The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light. The dark’s patience is infinite. Eventually, even stars burn out.”
ROTS Matt Stover.
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Sidious beat Yoda, Sidious beat Mace. Vader killed Obi-Wan. Luke defeated Vader using the darkside of the Force. Sidious wiped out the Jedi. Luke became all mopey and Sidious came back from the dead.
Sidious > all Jedi.
Anakin killed Sidious Anakin is the most powerful of the Jedi.
Of course in the long run, the Darkside will always win.
ROTS Matt Stover.
You'll note I said top-3 Jedi.
I don't consider Darth Vader and Sidious to be Jedi. And while Anakin still existed, he was not as powerful as Yoda or Obiwan.
Luke used the Dark Side to defeat Vader? He let the Emperor torture him with force-lightning hoping that the sight of his son suffering would turn Vader good again, which it did.
I agree to an extent, but you have one of the top 3 most powerful Jedi ever and Darth Freaking Vader facing off. You should see some powerful and unprecedented force fighting going on. I'll forgive them for the Obi Wan series, but I draw the line at the sequels.
For the record the top-3 Jedi of all time are Luke, Yoda and ObiWan. HM to Mace Windu.
what I mean is there's a bunch of other situations that characters in the Obi/Luke/Yoda/Vader tier found themselves where those uber powers would have been pretty damn useful. how many times did we see Vader helplessly watch a ship leave just as he's walking into a room, but now we know he's powerful enough to drag a huge transport down and rip it open like paper? or we have Obi and Ani twirling sabers for half a day when they could have been grabbing lava and throwing it at each other.
it's just like the hyperspace ram, where you're put in a situation where you have to twist your headcanon into a knot to justify it, i.e. it was a one in a million gamble, he didn't have enough rage at the time, he actually planned to let them go, etc.
what I mean is there's a bunch of other situations that characters in the Obi/Luke/Yoda/Vader tier found themselves where those uber powers would have been pretty damn useful. how many times did we see Vader helplessly watch a ship leave just as he's walking into a room, but now we know he's powerful enough to drag a huge transport down and rip it open like paper? or we have Obi and Ani twirling sabers for half a day when they could have been grabbing lava and throwing it at each other.
it's just like the hyperspace ram, where you're put in a situation where you have to twist your headcanon into a knot to justify it, i.e. it was a one in a million gamble, he didn't have enough rage at the time, he actually planned to let them go, etc.
There certainly is a lot wrong with the movies and shows, yet here we are
what I mean is there's a bunch of other situations that characters in the Obi/Luke/Yoda/Vader tier found themselves where those uber powers would have been pretty damn useful. how many times did we see Vader helplessly watch a ship leave just as he's walking into a room, but now we know he's powerful enough to drag a huge transport down and rip it open like paper? or we have Obi and Ani twirling sabers for half a day when they could have been grabbing lava and throwing it at each other.
it's just like the hyperspace ram, where you're put in a situation where you have to twist your headcanon into a knot to justify it, i.e. it was a one in a million gamble, he didn't have enough rage at the time, he actually planned to let them go, etc.
The OT happened when the Power Force! users were on the downswing. And Luke was never taught properly.
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The thing about the power differentiation of the Jedi/Sith at different time periods that gets me is the lack of general knowledge about these individuals. By the original trilogy, 99.9% of people have no idea what a jedi is, or what the force is, and they seem to have vague notions of "wizardry" or something similar. BUT, the events of the clone wars are a mere 30 years removed... at most. The Jedi were the generals of the clone war. There are no doubt countless living individuals who have seen the Jedi do amazing things using the force. Darth Vader is also chilling and people are DEFINITELY going to be talking about the crazy imperial dude who frequently displays massive force powers in public environments.
I dunno, it all just seems to wild for me. If there was a space wizard rolling around who routinely killed people with telekenesis, I feel like everyone even slightly aware of galactic ongoings would be aware of this person's existence, and thus of the Jedi. When the force powers were more muted, I could understand the lack of galactic understanding. But when the powers are so obvious, how do we explain the seeming yokel level stupidity of pretty much everyone in universe. Han is a perfect example. This is a guy who has been actively avoiding the empire as a smuggler, involved in crime circles, attended the academy, remembers elements of the clone wars, and he has NO idea what a jedi or the force is? even at all? Sus.
Star Wars universe has no social media. In fact its media in general seems to be World War II equivalent just like the military, limited to government propaganda reels broadcast on big screens.
for all its physical size, the SW galaxy is really just a small handful of people far apart from each other. the billions (trillions?) of regular citizens aren't shown much and when they are, they're more like wallpaper than a living part of the environment.
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When you think about it. In the Star Wars Galaxy there are trillions of life forms out there. probably thousands of habitable planets with civilization. Out of all that the Jedi Knights numbered 10,000 and the Sith after Bane 2.
For most they would never hear about or see a Jedi. For some they are stuff of Legend, they would probably see one in their lifetime, and rumors and exaggeration would spread about their power.
I would argue that most of the core worlds would be well educated on the Jedi, but the downtrodden on the mid and outer ring, unless the Jedi came to solve a dispute would either see them as super exaggerated mysterious Wizards surrounded by mystery and Lore or have never heard of them.
One of the interesting things that they talked to at the end of the Dark Lord book is Obi-Wan sitting in a bar watching the news, and the story was weeks old, just simply because no matter how advanced the Republic is, its vast size makes communications in a timely manner to the outer rim impossible. Other books pointed out that it was a long time before people realized they were in an Empire instead of a Republic.
In terms of Force Powers. In the PT trilogy we saw the Jedi at their height of power at the start of it. They were all well trained as well. But what did we see. Force Speed, Force Jump, the ability to move objects with their minds, and some precognition, as well as the ability to see through the force to possible futures (Visions). The most powerful thing that we really saw was the senate fight between Yoda and Sidious. For the most part except for a force push, the duel between Anakin and Obi was based on sword play.
In the original Trilogy, Ben by that time was old and out of practice and pretty feeble. Vader was still powerful (Throwing objects). But he was probably worn down and hadn't fought a Jedi in years so he was in the mundane. Yoda, didn't really need to use Force, but did lift a X-Wing to prove a point and uttered the line "size matters not"
Palpatine we saw in his glory. Force Lightning. Precognition, being able to forsee the future.
The problem is that everyone took that size matters not thing as a easy way to plot fix. Or do cool things.
Yup, Star Killer pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky. In the EU suns being ignited, or Jedi students pushing Super Star Destroyers out of a system. Or collapsing planets. If you had a plot problem the Force could solve it. Even Rey who really was untrained even though she was a Palpatine had these exaggerated force powers, and the returning Palpatine was blasting ships out of the sky. Luke in the EU blocking blaster bolts from Imperial Walkers and creating a whole illusionary fleet.
Literally Force users as time went on became more like gods then human and to an extent made them less interesting instead of more interesting.
In Kenobi I did like the idea of seeing a raging Vader at the height of his powers. If there was ever a Force user that should have had exaggerated powers at that point, it is Anakin, the choosen one, the most powerful Jedi in history. Pulling down a shuttle and ripping it open felt like a genuine Dark Side thing to me. ObiWan as the counter tossing rocks like he did, I was kind of ok with, it was a bit over the top, but again they had to show the Master Moment.
But lets be honest under the republic the Jedi were the picture of hypocrisy.
The Jedi probably focused on the influential worlds at the core. We know slavery, piracy and inter system wars happened in the mid and especially the outer rim. We see that on Tattooine with the Hutts. In the Clone Wars there was the Zygarian slavers. You had Black Sun running worlds and Crimson Dawn governing planets. The Jedi either didn't really care, or couldn't do anything because their numbers were small.
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The thing about the power differentiation of the Jedi/Sith at different time periods that gets me is the lack of general knowledge about these individuals. By the original trilogy, 99.9% of people have no idea what a jedi is, or what the force is, and they seem to have vague notions of "wizardry" or something similar. BUT, the events of the clone wars are a mere 30 years removed... at most. The Jedi were the generals of the clone war. There are no doubt countless living individuals who have seen the Jedi do amazing things using the force. Darth Vader is also chilling and people are DEFINITELY going to be talking about the crazy imperial dude who frequently displays massive force powers in public environments.
That's an interesting point, Remember that after Order 66, nobody talked about the Jedi probably for fear of Imperial Intelligence arresting them in the middle of the night. Meanwhile Compnor was busy removing the Jedi from history. So by the time of the height of the Empire, there were whole generations that hadn't seen or heard about the Jedi and what they did.
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Originally Posted by Monahammer
I dunno, it all just seems to wild for me. If there was a space wizard rolling around who routinely killed people with telekenesis, I feel like everyone even slightly aware of galactic ongoings would be aware of this person's existence, and thus of the Jedi. When the force powers were more muted, I could understand the lack of galactic understanding. But when the powers are so obvious, how do we explain the seeming yokel level stupidity of pretty much everyone in universe. Han is a perfect example. This is a guy who has been actively avoiding the empire as a smuggler, involved in crime circles, attended the academy, remembers elements of the clone wars, and he has NO idea what a jedi or the force is? even at all? Sus.
He was aware of the Force, he just didn't believe the stories. Remember that Han was born towards the end of the Clone Wars for example. He wasn't educated and people didn't talk about the Jedi. Also there weren't space wizards running around, most were dead, and probably Vader wasn't showing many force powers as he didn't need to, Palpatine maintained the guise of a benevolant injured Dictator. He didn't stand on the balcony force frying people while yelling "Zappity, Zappity". Probably there were only a few people that knew he was a Sith Lord. One being Vader and the other being Mas Adendu (sp?) I don't even know if a guy like Tarkin knew he was a Sith.
Probably the only messaging in Imperial History about the Jedi wasn't that they were all powerful beings and Generals. But that they were a religious order that fought as Generals in the Clone Wars, but they betrayed and attempted to over throw the Empire and kill the Chancellor so they could install a repressive theology based government akin to Tom Cruise become president. But you didn't see videos of the Jedi in the Clone Wars unless they were heavily edited to show the worst. You didn't see them in books.
Also frankly Palpatine's plan was so good that people that had survived didn't focus on the Jedi heroism or altruistic actions, but they they tried to over throw the government and attempted to murder a popular leader that was left scarred and barely survived the encounter.
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I guess this is old news at this point, but I watched Star Wars Visions and thought it was pretty good. Similar to the Animatrix, there are a couple duds but it was a solid outing. My biggest gripe is all of it had to do with Force users and Lightsabers, but it led to some pretty cool moments.
If I had to rank the episodes, it would be something like...
The Ninth Jedi
Lop and Ocho
The Duel
The Elder
The Twins
Akakiri
The Village Bride
T0-B1
Tatooine Rhapsody
I finished Rebels over the weekend, and wow. Just wow. Along with the Clone Wars animated series, this might be the best piece of Star Wars media out there.
The character development, the story arcs, just perfection.
How did the big bosses at Disney not just put Filoni in charge of all things Star Wars? The saga films they put out are absolute garbage, whereas everything else they've been doing is gold. Can't wrap my head around it.
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I finished Rebels over the weekend, and wow. Just wow. Along with the Clone Wars animated series, this might be the best piece of Star Wars media out there.
The character development, the story arcs, just perfection.
How did the big bosses at Disney not just put Filoni in charge of all things Star Wars? The saga films they put out are absolute garbage, whereas everything else they've been doing is gold. Can't wrap my head around it.
There's still a rumor that there will be another season of TCW made at some point. That will deal with the hunt for surviving jedi. With speculation that Cody will play a big part in it.
Also the Bad Batch is really just an extension of TCW, and with season 2 coming we should learn more about the transition to storm troopers and what happens to the surviving aging clones.
Revels started slow but really became one of my favorite shows when it hit its stride. We're probably going to see a live action Ezra and we know Ashoka is going to head up her own series and that Sabine will play a major role.
I do wish though that they had gotten further into the Death Star construction, they were really pointing in that direction when they found hints of it on Imperial Ships and at Geonosis after the Empire sterilized it.
I do really rank TCW slightly above Rebels, especially the last 3 seasons of Clone Wars.
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