Public education advocates call on Alberta to axe funds to private schools

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Slava

Are the private schools profitable? I don't think that public money should be given to private business. Amongst the other issues I have with public funding of private schools, I don't see why people would be onside with that.

Generally not by much. Aren't most private schools non-profit organizations?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Generally not by much. Aren't most private schools non-profit organizations?

I really don't know? I know there was one a few years ago that was a complete scam though. But I have to think that a Strathcona-Tweedsmuir or Webber Academy is profitable?

[OMG!WTF!]

No private schools are definitely not profitable. They are not allowed to spend any grant money on facilities, transportation or most administrative and some program costs. They generally cover all those costs with tuition and fund raising. Adding any kind of capital expense is the difficult part. Like a condo board they have to plan ahead for building maintenance and replacement or addition which would take care of any extra bucks and then some.

I think private schools are entitled to some but not all of the grants other schools get. 60/40 seems about right to me. Not doing so would just create an even greater class divide in education.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

As long as they receive no public funds whatsoever, I don't really care if private schools follow the Alberta curriculum.

I trust that the ones with horrible curriculums would go out of business.

I don't.

You'd have kids who grow into adults who are absolute morons because their parents were absolute morons and sent them to a school that spreads their stupidity.

As a society we have a duty of care to ensure that doesn't happen, and that's why there's a curriculum.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Why? Do people without children get a tax exemption?

Did you get to use schools when you were a kid? Do you benefit from living in an educated society?

The issue is that all kids are supposed to get funding for school. If their parents also chose to pay extra for private school, does that disentitle them to that funding?

As others have stated in private schools have to follow certain curriculums, that portion should be publicly funded.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Private schools partially funded by public money entrenches inequality.

Where do you draw the line? If parents can afford tutors, summer schools, camps, sports programs, etc.. Are they not also getting a leg up. Should their school subsidies be cut. Private school is a public curriculum with added extras.

As others have mentioned, the effect of cutting the funds won't be to attack the elite. You'll just drive the middle class who can barely afford the private schools back onto full public support. If you're making a million a year, an extra $3000 is meaningless. If you're making $80k it's a lot.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by blankall

Where do you draw the line? If parents can afford tutors, summer schools, camps, sports programs, etc.. Are they not also getting a leg up. Should their school subsidies be cut. Private school is a public curriculum with added extras.

As others have mentioned, the effect of cutting the funds won't be to attack the elite. You'll just drive the middle class who can barely afford the private schools back onto full public support. If you're making a million a year, an extra $3000 is meaningless. If you're making $80k it's a lot.

If you are making $80K you are not sending your kid to private school unless they have some sort of trust fund from a rich family member.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If you are making $80K you are not sending your kid to private school unless they have some sort of trust fund from a rich family member.

Or a special need that you can't control.

Or maybe you want to send them to a "better" school in lieu of other things (sports, other extra-curricular things).

People put themselves through craziness to make kids' sports fees work, I'm sure there are some parents who do similar things for school.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If you are making $80K you are not sending your kid to private school unless they have some sort of trust fund from a rich family member.

There are ranges of private school tuition fees. Not every school costs $15,000+.

And I know many people who went to private school (including Strathcona Tweedsmuir) despite having parents who were teachers or other middle income earners. These families gave up on things like fancy family vacations to pay for education.

My overall point was that taking away this funding isn't going to have any affect on the uber-rich. It's just going to force the lower end that can barely afford private back into the public system. If anything that just solidifies the social stratification.

The fact of the matter is that it'll never be totally fair. If you ban private schools, then the rich families will just use other means like paying for expensive tutors on the side. A better solution, if you think the private schools are really a huge edge, might be to have government sponsored scholarships to send low income kids to fancy private schools, based on merit of course.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by blankall

The fact of the matter is that it'll never be totally fair. If you ban private schools, then the rich families will just use other means like paying for expensive tutors on the side. A better solution, if you think the private schools are really a huge edge, might be to have government sponsored scholarships to send low income kids to fancy private schools, based on merit of course.

I would just like to say, I don't think private schools are much of an edge. Of course smaller classes and more resources can help, but unless you're a child with special learning needs, I don't think you see a noticeable difference in intelligence level. Kids who are exceptional will excel anywhere, and most public schools have some form of IB course path that narrows the amount of kids in a program anyways. And that's based on grades, not money. All of the smartest people I know, some who I would consider borderline genius, went through the same public school I did. Some of the biggest dips***s I know when through private schools.

In short, I don't think theres much of a reason to go the private route unless there are special needs for your kid. But my high school was pretty small, so class size wasn't really an issue.

[BigNumbers]

My kid goes to private school, and expect their siblings will to, as they come of age.

Providing a per child education subsidy (ie same $5,000 per kid, or whatever the number is) regardless of what the parent chooses seems about right. That way the system and taxpayer is agnostic to the choice the parent makes - if I want to spent $20K a year at Webber, then so be it - the taxpayer shouldn't care either way if they are kept whole, as they are under the current system - which in my view is almost unfair, as it only provides ~60% of the grant that a public school child receives (but I think it's close, I just think the fixed costs of our school system are nearer 30% than 40%, but whatever)

There is a secondary issue in ensuring that schools that receive grants are providing proper educations, but that is another topic.

[Ozy_Flame]

$20k/year to send a kid to junior/senior high school? Wow I didn't realize it was that expensive. Does it make a difference?

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

$20k/year to send a kid to junior/senior high school? Wow I didn't realize it was that expensive. Does it make a difference?

I believe it does, but I also firmly believe it depends on the child. I was educated in the public system, and it worked alright for me. Being a parent now though, you can see a drastic benefit to the smaller class sizes, the more individualized learning and the higher quality of instruction that a private school provides vs what I recall as a student 15 years ago. This really benefits my oldest child, but if they were a different type of person, maybe I wouldn't see as much a benefit - I just find what the private system provides is better for the oldest's personality, cognition and learning style.

With that said, it really depends on what your child needs as they age. I expect our kids will go back into the public system at some point, as I think the benefits of the private system begin to lessen as you get through elementary school - so perhaps for Junior High we'll move them into public schools. I firmly believe the first decade of life and education is the most important - after that, if they have the tools, the situation (private/public) is less important, in my view.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I would just like to say, I don't think private schools are much of an edge. Of course smaller classes and more resources can help, but unless you're a child with special learning needs, I don't think you see a noticeable difference in intelligence level. Kids who are exceptional will excel anywhere, and most public schools have some form of IB course path that narrows the amount of kids in a program anyways. And that's based on grades, not money. All of the smartest people I know, some who I would consider borderline genius, went through the same public school I did. Some of the biggest dips***s I know when through private schools.

In short, I don't think theres much of a reason to go the private route unless there are special needs for your kid. But my high school was pretty small, so class size wasn't really an issue.

I think a lot of it has to do with the culture the school provides. For example there is a real push at some private schools to choose a university...like you get information on schools, time in class to fill out applications, lots of guidance. There's no option other than "here pick a school". You might be a struggling student but you're going to be doing the course work required to at least qualify for admission somewhere. This really helps the borderline kids if university attendance is your measure of a successful high school.

[V]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If you are making $80K you are not sending your kid to private school unless they have some sort of trust fund from a rich family member.

Dead wrong, and I'm tired of hearing that all private schools are filled with rich people. So not the case.

[You Need a Thneed]

My 2 kids go to one of the schools in this category. Tuition is about $5,000 a year total. More expensive than public school, yes, but certainly not a rediculous cost, or a cost that limits it to only "rich" people.

It hasn't come up in this thread, but the school is every bit as culturally diverse (if not moreso) than the public schools in the area.

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

My 2 kids go to one of the schools in this category. Tuition is about $5,000 a year total. More expensive than public school, yes, but certainly not a rediculous cost, or a cost that limits it to only "rich" people.

It hasn't come up in this thread, but the school is every bit as culturally diverse (if not moreso) than the public schools in the area.

I assume you're talking about the in-betweens - ie: Charter Schools?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by BigNumbers

I assume you're talking about the in-betweens - ie: Charter Schools?

Publicly funded "private" school - through Palliser school board.

[polak]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but as much as I am anti-catholic schools, your municipal tax dollars aren't going to the catholic school board unless you declared that you want to support them when you bought your property.

[Fuzz]

That's only the property tax portion. General tax revenue also goes to support them. Plus you still have the issues of duplication and waste.