Public education advocates call on Alberta to axe funds to private schools

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by harmony

why are private schools funded by the government at all? it's ridiculous.

Did you read the thread?

[DionTheDman]

Reviving this thread as my daughter is entering kindergarten this year at Webber Academy.

For what it's worth, I've met a handful of the parents that have kids there, and most hold middle/upper middle class careers - insurance broker, finance, engineer, nurse... I am a lawyer and my wife is an accountant. I also know of at least one current Flames player who sends his kids there.

I will admit that we are in a financial position that most are not, but we are by no means holed up in our compounds drinking $500 bottles of champagne chatting about how to manipulate the stock market.

I get the impression that most of the parents are in a similar position. Parents who have to make some sacrifices in order to make this happen for their kids.

[GGG]

Double professional incomes are solidly NOT middle class.

They are in the top 3% of earning families. This idea that appears to exist among engineers, accountants and other professionals that are married to professionals that they are somehow “middle class” is kind of ridiculous.

Good luck to your kids.

[V]

Everyone thinks they're middle class.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by V

Everyone thinks they're middle class.

I’ve noticed a lot of people who think they’re middle class also assume that everyone in the middle class are in a similar financial situation

[bossy22]

My son goes to Rundle Academy and it has been amazing. He really struggled with a learning disability at public school. He hated school because he would get bullied because of it and he struggled to learn. I would pick him up and he would be in tears more often than not. Since moving he’s really come out of his shell. Honor student. He’s on student council and his confidence is a 100 times better. Problem now is we are tied to Calgary and can’t move. We really want to move but we now are waiting until he graduates.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by bossy22

My son goes to Rundle Academy and it has been amazing. He really struggled with a learning disability at public school. He hated school because he would get bullied because of it and he struggled to learn. I would pick him up and he would be in tears more often than not. Since moving he’s really come out of his shell. Honor student. He’s on student council and his confidence is a 100 times better. Problem now is we are tied to Calgary and can’t move. We really want to move but we now are waiting until he graduates.

I always think these are the great private school stories. Congrats to your son on his achievement.

[photon]

We tried to get into private schools since they looked like a good option for my son's disability, unfortunately we got rejected from them since my kid also had a behavioural code.. "integrity of our program" is a phrase I got really tired of hearing.

Fortunately after going through the Day Treatment Program at the Children's Hospital things really turned around and he ended up winning the "Most Improved Student" award in his jr. high and did really well in high school despite the COVID challenges.

I get that the private schools can pick and choose and might not be equipped to deal with certain things and that public schools have to take everyone even if they also are not equipped, it was just really frustrating at the time and I wonder what it would have been like if he'd gotten to go to one of those schools.. Academically maybe the same but socialization it might have been better for him if he'd been able to make more friends like him.

[malcolmk14]

Yep, private and charter schools pick and choose their students (even if they say they don’t). I don’t fault anyone who is privileged enough to do so for accessing them, some of them do truly do great work, but I don’t believe they should receive public funding unless they are accessible by everyone.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Yep, private and charter schools pick and choose their students (even if they say they don’t). I don’t fault anyone who is privileged enough to do so for accessing them, some of them do truly do great work, but I don’t believe they should receive public funding unless they are accessible by everyone.

How do you propose we achieve that? I know that you know there is an education option that is accessible by everyone...

[malcolmk14]

If a Private school wants public funding, they should not be allowed to deny entry to a student for any reason.

If a Charter school wants public funding, they should grant equal access to everyone, rather than allowing only the privileged to attend, and be required to provide adequate programming for everyone, just like a public school is.

I'm not saying these places shouldn't exist, just that they shouldn't be able to restrict access if they are publicly funded.

[iggy_oi]

The practice of private/charter schools receiving public money when they can pick and choose who attends needs to be fixed. It’s like publicly funding a hospital but not allowing everyone who needs treatment access to that hospital.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

If a Private school wants public funding, they should not be allowed to deny entry to a student for any reason.

If a Charter school wants public funding, they should grant equal access to everyone, rather than allowing only the privileged to attend, and be required to provide adequate programming for everyone, just like a public school is.

I'm not saying these places shouldn't exist, just that they shouldn't be able to restrict access if they are publicly funded.

It's just numbers... Capacity.

How do you force a private school to accept everyone that applies, thereby eliminating a main reason someone would be willing to pay a premium for the better learning environment, i.e. smaller class sizes? (though some schools seem to have 'normal' class sizes)

Charter schools are the same way. I know parents that put their kids on waiting lists before they could walk, and even that was too late.

Personally, I like the idea of a voucher system, as mentioned by Peter in post 107; all students in Alberta should be given the same funding, regardless of the taxes their parents pay, or the education and financial decisions their parents make. But then again, maybe I have a different view of equality than you do.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by you&me

It's just numbers... Capacity.

How do you force a private school to accept everyone that applies, thereby eliminating a main reason someone would be willing to pay a premium for the better learning environment, i.e. smaller class sizes? (though some schools seem to have 'normal' class sizes)

Charter schools are the same way. I know parents that put their kids on waiting lists before they could walk, and even that was too late.

Personally, I like the idea of a voucher system, as mentioned by Peter in post 107; all students in Alberta should be given the same funding, regardless of the taxes their parents pay, or the education and financial decisions their parents make. But then again, maybe I have a different view of equality than you do.

Students at private/charter schools receive more funding for their education than those at public schools do they not?

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by you&me

It's just numbers... Capacity.

How do you force a private school to accept everyone that applies, thereby eliminating a main reason someone would be willing to pay a premium for the better learning environment, i.e. smaller class sizes? (though some schools seem to have 'normal' class sizes)

Charter schools are the same way. I know parents that put their kids on waiting lists before they could walk, and even that was too late.

Personally, I like the idea of a voucher system, as mentioned by Peter in post 107; all students in Alberta should be given the same funding, regardless of the taxes their parents pay, or the education and financial decisions their parents make. But then again, maybe I have a different view of equality than you do.

The post above my first one references a private school denying access to photon's son because of his disability. Charter schools can deny access to students because of grades, behaviour, medical issues, or a whole host of other reasons. Capacity is one thing, but I'm talking about denying access to schools for other reasons "to protect the integrity of the program".

I believe in and wish for a robust and well-funded public system that can provide quality education to everyone, regardless of financial background, and universal voucher systems, private schools, and exclusive schools of choice hurt the public school system and create more inequality.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

If a Charter school wants public funding, they should grant equal access to everyone, rather than allowing only the privileged to attend, and be required to provide adequate programming for everyone, just like a public school is.

I can't speak for every charter school (because there are several different ones), but not every one "picks and chooses" -- ours is open to everyone to enroll. I'm assuming it depends on the school.

The waitlist is a separate issue; it used to be FCFS but they have transitioned it to a lottery system.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I can't speak for every charter school (because there are several different ones), but not every one "picks and chooses" -- ours is open to everyone to enroll. I'm assuming it depends on the school.

The waitlist is a separate issue; it used to be FCFS but they have transitioned it to a lottery system.

Are they open to kids with learning or behavioural codes?

[you&me]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Students at private/charter schools receive more funding for their education than those at public schools do they not?

My understanding is that each student in public education in Alberta receives roughly $8k per year (varies slightly between grades), whereas each student attending private schools (not sure about charters) receives about 60% of the equivalent amount for their grade, or roughly $4,800 per year.

The balance of the cost of providing a private school education is made up from tuition, but that tuition also goes to things like teacher salaries, equipment (gym stuff, computers), capital expenses and future capital expenditures.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

The post above my first one references a private school denying access to photon's son because of his disability. Charter schools can deny access to students because of grades, behaviour, medical issues, or a whole host of other reasons. Capacity is one thing, but I'm talking about denying access to schools for other reasons "to protect the integrity of the program".

I believe in and wish for a robust and well-funded public system that can provide quality education to everyone, regardless of financial background, and universal voucher systems, private schools, and exclusive schools of choice hurt the public school system and create more inequality.

This is still a function of capacity. As I mentioned in a previous post, I know people that waited for YEARS on a waitlist for a Charter school; they are insanely popular and no reasonable person should assume a guaranteed spot.

If a private or charter school sells itself on only having 20 students per class and there's 3 classes per grade, there has to be a reasonable expectation that some kids won't be admitted if more than 60 apply. If a school has one available spot and there are numerous applicants, it seems reasonable to me that the applicant that is most suitable for the school (or least disruptive) gets the spot and that same concept can be extrapolated over however many applicants and spots there are.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

I believe in and wish for a robust and well-funded public system that can provide quality education to everyone, regardless of financial background, and universal voucher systems, private schools, and exclusive schools of choice hurt the public school system and create more inequality.

But the earlier discussion was about how the kids that go into private don't receive as much funding allocated to them as kids that go into public. I think the quoted number was 60%? If that's true, then the public system does get a funding boost by virtue of a proportion of the kids going into the private stream.

In a city with 100 children with 90 public/10 private and $100,000 of funding:

• Equal funding = $1,000 per child. This is true equity with no private option and every child receiving the same funding.
• 60% of funding for private versus 100% of funding for public results in the 90 public children receiving $1,044.44 per child, and the 10 private children receiving $600 per child.

In this case, the public kids will get an extra $44.44 of funding they wouldn't otherwise receive. So doesn't everyone benefit, since the private kids get to go to their preferential school, while the kids in public receive extra resources allocated to them?