Brad Treliving needs to go

[Bingo]

All GMs make mistakes ... all of them. In fact I would imagine the really good ones get it right about 60% of the time. You hope that you get more of the impactful ones correct and push the team forward.

Treliving has had a good summer for sure, but who knows where it goes. Hockey is a chemistry sport above all others, and the team could be cup champs or just not be a fit, we really have no idea.

I would have been happy with a tear down after losing two key players, but am shocked to see we actually get a core change that seems to have made the team better which is shocking.

They are older, and they will have some contract headache in 5 years, but for now I see the plan and I'm glad they're out of that mushy middle.

Treliving has always had my support because he seems intelligent, works his ass off, and to me anyway, puts a respectful and intelligent face on the franchise. I don't expect him to be a wizard with every move or to be perfect, but I know he's going to do what he can to improve the team and with that I've always felt the team is in good hands.

He seems to be getting better too, so I'm glad the ownership saw the evolution and didn't cash out when their investment turned the corner.

Will be interesting to see where the next few years go. Do they need a new voice/face at some point? Or does he become the next Poile?

[dobbles]

As one of the resident 'not a Flames fan' posters here, I gotta say, I am in love with your guys offseason. First of all, I view this as a major win for the GM for things outside his control. Its been beaten to death, but it seems crazy there are still holdouts. You guys replaced and potentially even improved on 2 100 point players that didn't want to be here. How crazy is that?!?!? Aside from trading them years ago, what else as Treliving supposed to do? And even if he had traded them with more contract, what more could he have gotten?

Overall though, I think GM's are judged in 2 ways: the moves as they are made, and whether the moves led to success. The first part is where I think Treliving has been amazing. When you look at the context of many of the moves he's made, they were viewed as wins at the time. Even something like Jarnkrok that didn't pan out, it was a solid deal for a team making a playoff push. Even James Neal was a solid deal when it was made. I don't think anyone saw that absolute implosion coming.

The other half of the GM rating is where its been a much more mixed bag. Despite making good moves on paper, that has to lead to success. And that you guys have still struggled for. Certainly some regular season success with 2 of the top 4 seasons in Flames history. But still that postseason struggle. So I think it is fair to ask in the bigger picture where the success is. But to me, he has still been making big moves to try and put the team in a position to win. So that keeps earning him leeway to improve that. I googled to find this that says you guys have 16 postseason wins since 2015 which ties you with the Oilers and Jets at 17th. So middle of the road.
https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl...ins-since-2015

I really think you guys are looking strong and can do some damage in this years playoffs as long as you stay decently healthy. And remember it could always be worse. I had to watch Ken Holland run my beloved Red Wings into the ground. He re-signed Dan Cleary so many times, I just picked a new team when we moved to Oklahoma. Decided to be a Stars fan due to proximity and they have been all over the place as well. Nill makes some bold moves and sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don't.

[Flamesfan05]

He has done a miracle recovery. He earned his job

However, I reserve the right to see the results in the next couple years.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol, Blaming Brad for geography again

No, just blaming him for not being able to talk to his players and figuring out their true intentions. He created an 11th hour mess for himself. Everyone and their dogs questioned Gaudreau's willingness to stay.

He tried fixing it and I do love trades. Good on him! Let's see the results on the ice before we appoint him as the greatest GM in the history of the NHL. But for now, I think he has earned himself at least another season.

[Roof-Daddy]

I don't even think Johnny fully knew his "true intentions"

He was torn right to the end IMO

Can't fault Treliving for that

He took the Tkachuk situation and knocked it out of the effin park though

[sketchyt]

I was leaning on the fire Treliving bandwagon after Johnny left. This is an incredible 180.

For those whinging about the contracts and handcuffing the team, here's the cap space available in years after this one:

2023-24: $10,136,667 (with basically only Weegar to sign)
2024-25: $45,750,000
2025-26: $51,550,000

It's been a good couple weeks to be a Flames fan and they're set up to stay that way for the next few years.

[nfotiu]

I don't necessarily buy it was a mistake to keep Johnny through the year, even if he knew he was likely to leave.

A year of Johnny was worth as much or more to use last season than anyone else. We had one of our top 5 years in Flames history because we held onto him.

If his thought is if he signs, great, if not we'll use that cap space for comparable pieces, then it was a perfectly fine move that worked out as planned. Also having a good season surely made us more attractive to the new guys who signed.

[Enoch Root]

Honestly, if Treliving trades Tkachuk and Gaudreau a year earlier, does he do much better than Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt and a 1st? Their values would have been much lower than they were this summer.

They probably both would have returned the classic: ok player + ok prospect + 1st

And we wouldn't have gotten last year, which, until the Edmonton series, was probably the best year since 2004 for the fans

[Vinny01]

I watched a clip from TSN that was a short summary of what went down this summer and the host mentioned that the way Treliving handled this summer he has put himself in the category as one of the elite GM’s in the league.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

I have trouble with this, being a Natural Born Pessimist.

However, you really only have 3 options.

1. Perpetual Mediocrity (The Flames have written the book on this one)

2. Burn it to the ground, suck for a decade and try again.

3. Bet it all on Red.

Treliving is rolling all the dice. And, as someone who had firmly been in the 'Fire Treliving' Camp, I have to give him credit for it.

Because the reason I wanted him fired was because he had always seemed unwilling to roll the dice, how can I fault him for doing exactly what I criticized him for not doing?

He got there in a roundabout way, no question.

But now we can be sure of a few things, they're going to raise Holy Hell in this league for the next 2 to 3 years and hopefully it pays off because after that....the Bill comes due and we wind up back at option 2.

Nice analogy but you got it wrong. When you bet it all on red there is no dice...haha

I wanted him gone because he built such a wimpy-ass team. and thank god he didn't participate in the Eichel sweepstakes.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by dobbles

As one of the resident 'not a Flames fan' posters here, I gotta say, I am in love with your guys offseason. First of all, I view this as a major win for the GM for things outside his control. Its been beaten to death, but it seems crazy there are still holdouts. You guys replaced and potentially even improved on 2 100 point players that didn't want to be here. How crazy is that?!?!? Aside from trading them years ago, what else as Treliving supposed to do? And even if he had traded them with more contract, what more could he have gotten?

Overall though, I think GM's are judged in 2 ways: the moves as they are made, and whether the moves led to success. The first part is where I think Treliving has been amazing. When you look at the context of many of the moves he's made, they were viewed as wins at the time. Even something like Jarnkrok that didn't pan out, it was a solid deal for a team making a playoff push. Even James Neal was a solid deal when it was made. I don't think anyone saw that absolute implosion coming.

The other half of the GM rating is where its been a much more mixed bag. Despite making good moves on paper, that has to lead to success. And that you guys have still struggled for. Certainly some regular season success with 2 of the top 4 seasons in Flames history. But still that postseason struggle. So I think it is fair to ask in the bigger picture where the success is. But to me, he has still been making big moves to try and put the team in a position to win. So that keeps earning him leeway to improve that. I googled to find this that says you guys have 16 postseason wins since 2015 which ties you with the Oilers and Jets at 17th. So middle of the road.
https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl...ins-since-2015

I really think you guys are looking strong and can do some damage in this years playoffs as long as you stay decently healthy. And remember it could always be worse. I had to watch Ken Holland run my beloved Red Wings into the ground. He re-signed Dan Cleary so many times, I just picked a new team when we moved to Oklahoma. Decided to be a Stars fan due to proximity and they have been all over the place as well. Nill makes some bold moves and sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don't.

I agree with most of your assessment. On a whole, Treliving's player moves have generally been more good than bad.

My biggest gripe with Treliving over his tenure has always been his coaching choices. He built a great team, but skimped out or took a chance on unproven coaches, which really did a number to the team that had all the pieces to be a contender. It took him what, 8 years to finally recognize that? That's a lot of wasted years IMO.

[All In Good Time]

Honestly, this thread needs to die....ha ha

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Honestly, this thread needs to die....ha ha

This thread will never die. It will linger on as one of the undead forever.

Forty years from now, when Brad Treliving is dead (and a lot of us along with him), there will still be people posting in this thread, complaining about where he is buried. They'll say he has to go to a different cemetery so the first cemetery can do a proper rebuild.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by keenan87

He tried fixing it and I do love trades. Good on him! Let's see the results on the ice before we appoint him as the greatest GM in the history of the NHL. But for now, I think he has earned himself at least another season.

Said no one ever.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Honestly, if Treliving trades Tkachuk and Gaudreau a year earlier, does he do much better than Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt and a 1st? Their values would have been much lower than they were this summer.

They probably both would have returned the classic: ok player + ok prospect + 1st

And we wouldn't have gotten last year, which, until the Edmonton series, was probably the best year since 2004 for the fans

Yep, great point. Obviously he would have got "more" for Gaudreau last season, but I honestly think it would have been extremely underwhelming. Life is a series of random and intended events.

If Brad had traded Gaudreau for a modest return last off season and then Tkachuk didn't have the insane season he had this year because of Gaudreau I'm willing to bet the overall return of Guadreau last season plus Tkachuk this off season is lower than the Tkachuk return this off season.

Gaudreau is likely responsible for at least Weegar in the haul we got back for Tkachuk. Just something to keep in mind. Hell, his insane season that he had with Tkachuk might be responsible for both Huberdeau and Weegar, otherwise their GM may not have called him a unicorn and offered the moon to get him. Does Tkachuk hit 100 points without Gaudreau this season? Not a chance, imo.

[Red_Baron]

I remember a month ago when many on this board were hailing the greatness of Ken Holland for re-signing a scumbag and Duncan Keith retiring...
I can't wait for this season to start!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

I remember a month ago when many on this board were hailing the greatness of Ken Holland for re-signing a scumbag and Duncan Keith retiring...
I can't wait for this season to start!

And Oiler fans have been touting all summer that the Oilers are improved.

Changes from last year:

Out........ In
Kassian.. Janmark
Keith..... Koekkoek
Russell.. Broberg
Smith.... Campbell
Koskinen Skinner

That team is worse, not better. Up front, Kassian is a moron, but Janmark won't add much. On D, I don't care how much of an Oiler homer you are, you can't make a case that Koekkoek and Broberg are going to be better than the guys they are replacing. And as much as they hated Koskinen, he kept them in it last year when Smith was hurt, their tandem this year is not as good as what they had last year.

Now, they have $300k to sign 2 forwards, so they need to move someone. The most likely candidates are Puljujarvi, Yamamoto or Foegele. So they move one of them, and and they have $3 to $3.4M in space, depending on which one is out. From that $3M, they now need 3 forwards. So they can bring in 3 guys at basically league minimum. Which means they are trading someone who was in their middle 6 last year, for a replacement player.

What about Holloway? Well, you can guarantee he is gifted a spot, because that is the Oilers way. He is 20 (a year younger than Pelletier), and put up 8-14-22 in 33 games last year (Pelletier was 27-35-62 in 67). So yes, Holloway will be on the team, but don't expect much from him, because he is not ready for the NHL.

TL;DR: the Oilers are NOT better than last year, they are a little worse. And not only that, but they are worse at the 2 positions that they were already weak at: D and goaltending.

McDavid is, like, totally awesome, man. But he and Draisaitl can't play all 6 positions.

[sureLoss]

One of the criticisms about Treliving is that he seems to be involved in every trade or signing but could never seem to close the deal on the big ones.

Interesting to see it from the outside looking in as the Islanders fans are going through some of that this summer.

Outside of Romanov the Isles haven't done anything to improve their team, but reportedly had a trade for JT Miller fall apart at the draft, took a run at Gaudreau, and had some insiders claiming that Kadri was a done deal only to see him go to Calgary.

[neo45]

I think the unfortunate circumstances actually brought out the best in Treliving and forced him to make big changes that he otherwise would have been too cautious to make

Team is better than it was a year ago for sure. On paper anyways

[Kasi]

On vacation? And this thread should join him.