Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[CaptainCrunch]

That would explain the Nia Jax stuff.


Its a shame, but Dean hasn't been the same guy for a while, and his whole turn against the Shield really fell flat for me. He will be a good asset for AEW though.


I wonder if Renee will follow him out the door, she's just been bad as a commentator.

[d_phaneuf]

Why would renee leave just because he allegedly is?

She just got moved up to commentating, wwe clearly loves her, no she hasnt been great but no one in that 3rd spot opposite graves has been in a long time

If anything they would be banking on her to improve over removing her, since they would need to replace her with a woman anyway for the optics and no one else is really knocking at the door

Plus if he leaves and goes to another organization, which I still think is a toss up, just look at that Rhonda stuff last week, and meltzer isnt saying this ambrose stuff isn't true but hes also saying he cant confirm it, but renee likely wouldnt follow him to njpw or aew or whatever, if she goes to another broadcasting job it's probably espn or fox sports or some media role outside sports.

So him being gone from wwe wouldnt effect them working together since they wouldnt be anyway

[SuperMatt18]

At what point does Vince McMahon just have to step aside on creative direction and give HHH more control on the.

With real competition potentially coming they may actually have competition for talent.

The Revival
Dean Ambrose
Sasha Banks (rumored to be unhappy)
Andrade (rumored to be unhappy before this recent push)
Gallows & Anderson

All very talented but creative really had no idea how to use them and now they may want out.

I'm also very intrigued to see what happens with AJ Styles. Contract is up in April, seems to have done all he probably wanted to do in WWE, may he jump ship to help his old friends at AEW.

[Ozy_Flame]

Regarding AJ, I think the rumor was he was going to go down to a part-time schedule (like John Cena) for a year or two, and then retire. He has made his money, won the biggest titles in the world, and really has nothing left to prove. Dude is a family man with four kids and is entering his early 40's.

Vinny Mac is really hurting the main roster brands by being involved in the writing. He just isn't in tune with modern wrestling fans and the types of storylines they crave. HHH needs to be given the reigns and stat.

One thing I immediately felt in Phoenix with Takeover vs. RR was that the crowd was far more vested in the Takeover characters/intensity whereas the RR crowd was there to see the spectacle and cheer their household names. There really was little to no story development at RR, where the complete opposite was true at Takeover.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Regarding AJ, I think the rumor was he was going to go down to a part-time schedule (like John Cena) for a year or two, and then retire. He has made his money, won the biggest titles in the world, and really has nothing left to prove. Dude is a family man with four kids and is entering his early 40's.

Vinny Mac is really hurting the main roster brands by being involved in the writing. He just isn't in tune with modern wrestling fans and the types of storylines they crave. HHH needs to be given the reigns and stat.

One thing I immediately felt in Phoenix with Takeover vs. RR was that the crowd was far more vested in the Takeover characters/intensity whereas the RR crowd was there to see the spectacle and cheer their household names. There really was little to no story development at RR, where the complete opposite was true at Takeover.

Yeah it really is evident.

You look at the long term storytelling in NXT (right down to Gargano coming out after the copyright sign for NXT rolled just like Ciampa did to start the whole fued), and then look at the main roster and it's night and day.

It really is like they are not even the same company.

Even the storytelling in the NXT Women's title match which I personally thought wasn't as good as past builds was much better than anything on the main roster.

I think the only complaint you could have with NXT right now is that Ricochet and Alester Black were kinda left by the side in order to tell the DIY storyline.

[d_phaneuf]

It is such a huge advantage tho

1 hour of tv time a week, 4 takeovers a year, most people are only on tv twice a month too. The DIY storyline has been almost 2 years now, but if that was on raw, just from an actual time standpoint it's probably like 3 months. The actual weeks between matches or events makes it feel more epic

Hard to compare to raw or sdl, where almost everyone is on tv every week, the creative has 2 or 3 hours a week and one ppv per month

I've seen rumors that they are going back to brand specific ppv but not adding anymore, so that you can give fueds more time and build, 8 weeks vs 3 or 4. Or doing rid of the brand split entirely, but not working guys so much, this makes more sense for fox, since they wont want to be thought of as the b show.

Have weeks where guys arent on tv, or in a match, make more factions, it allows more people in storylines etc.

[Ozy_Flame]

I've also come to realize that Vince is poison for most NXT talents when they get called up. Only a handful of them ahve been really successful at the gimmicks that got them the promotion. Too many have fallen to the undercard / used as jobber fodder / ignored for TV time when they had incredible runs in NXT. Bo Dallas, Tyler Breeze, the Ascension, the Revival, Bobby Roode, Chad Gable, Cien Almas, Bayley, etc. Hell, Samoa Joe hasn't even had a main roster title yet which is a complete tragedy especially when you consider his "Great Balls of Fire" feud with Brock was probably the best feud Brock has been in in the last six years.

I just don't think Vince knows how to handle pre-existing characters, which is 100% the way the industry is trending right now, even with HHH's management of NXT.

Going forward, it really is looking like wrestlers will have a character that they can carry to multiple promotions and continue to work on/build over a longer period of time. You can already see NXT doing this with EC3, Matt Riddle, WALTER, Pete Dunne, etc.

[albertGQ]

Are they writing Braun out of the main event? He lost his title shot at RR and took a beating last night. What gives? I thought they were high on him

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Are they writing Braun out of the main event? He lost his title shot at RR and took a beating last night. What gives? I thought they were high on him

I think that Braun has really self cooled off as well. He's gotten pretty repetitive. There are also concerns about his long term viability as his knees are completely shot. Plus I guess he has heat backstage for how he interacts with people.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

It is such a huge advantage tho

1 hour of tv time a week, 4 takeovers a year, most people are only on tv twice a month too. The DIY storyline has been almost 2 years now, but if that was on raw, just from an actual time standpoint it's probably like 3 months. The actual weeks between matches or events makes it feel more epic

Hard to compare to raw or sdl, where almost everyone is on tv every week, the creative has 2 or 3 hours a week and one ppv per month

I've seen rumors that they are going back to brand specific ppv but not adding anymore, so that you can give fueds more time and build, 8 weeks vs 3 or 4. Or doing rid of the brand split entirely, but not working guys so much, this makes more sense for fox, since they wont want to be thought of as the b show.

Have weeks where guys arent on tv, or in a match, make more factions, it allows more people in storylines etc.

That's the big thing though. It comes down to the booking. The roster is big enough they could space thing out a bit more and let things build.

We don't need to see some combination of Seth vs Dean for two months with them fighting every single Raw.

Having 5 hours to fill is tough but they have the roster to do it. They had 4 hours of TV for most of the attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras with Smackdown and Raw but they made it work back then.

My personal opinion is they should get rid of the brand split (you can still have two crews for live shows and stuff but allow for more flexibility for wrestlers to be on different shows week to week), and try to trim down the PPVs to 13 if possible.

Edit:

The other thing that NXT really does better is the emotion of wrestling really comes off as more genuine. Whether it be for friendships with tag team partners, or hatred with fueding combatants it really comes off as more real. Which makes the stakes seem higher.

For example: No way would NXT writers just pass off the fact that Lesnar gave Balor an extra couple F5s and suplex's after the fact during their match at Royal Rumble in a promo. That would have carried over to the next week/nights show.

Instead on Raw Balor comes out, doesn't seem mad at all that he lost or that Lesnar beat him up after the match (gee golly he tried his best), and they just throw Balor right into a new fued. Then later on in the night Balor just watches Rollins get F5'd over and over and doesn't come out at all to get some retribution. Stuff like that is what NXT does better, Balor for sure would have come out and tried to get another piece of Lesnar if that was on an NXT show.

On the main card the faces are always such soft pushovers. They get beat up by the heels one night, and the next night still come back with a big smile on their faces most of the time. And it's why they don't really have any great faces anymore. The most successful wrestlers always tend to get naturally over as heels with personality (Becky, Braun - for a bit, heel AJ Styles in recent memory, Stone Cold, The Rock, and even rapping Cena in the past) and then get neutered once they are faces and the tend to lose any real momentum with the crowds.

In the end that might be the root of the problem. Old Grandpa Vince McMahon doesn't want another Stone Cold or the Rock, he wants another say your prayers and eat your vitamins Hulk Hogan, and I just don't think that type of face has worked for 25 years.

[Traditional_Ale]

^ I think the answer is to forget faces and heels, and just let everyone be their own shade of something in between. Or, all heels. That would be rad.

[Muta]

That's how NJPW books its talents. They're just turned up versions of themselves, not heels or faces. It works well, since the fans will cheer and jeer for who they want anyways. The way talent is booked is not 'faces versus heels'; rather, its whatever personalities organically clash and NJPW just facilitates the eventual match. Personally, I think this is a much better booking style, and doesn't force ####ty feuds down people's throats.

[mile]

Booking a heel Ambrose should've been one of the easiest things for creative to do. It's too bad he never met the potential he showed in developmental or in the early Shield days, but getting Vince to truly understand what he brought to the table was always going to be an uphill battle.

Ambrose said that his goal after returning from injury was to do work that he could be proud of, regardless of where he was on the card - so I'm not surprised he's leaving. He definitely can't be happy with how he's been written and what he has produced since his heel turn.

At least this means the return of Jon Moxley. Hopefully for AEW.

[CaptainCrunch]

That appearance on the Stone Cold Podcast didn't help Dean, and he buried himself pretty hard on it.

[Ozy_Flame]

WWE already released a statement on their front page:

https://www.wwe.com/article/dean-amb...g-wwe-contract

Dean Ambrose (Jonathan Good) will not be renewing his contract with WWE when it expires in April.

We are grateful and appreciative of all that Dean has given to WWE and our fans. We wish him well and hope that one day Dean will return to WWE.

They have never done this before and would not normally do this . . . I can't help but think this could be a work? Unless Dean made them say that? Wowzers.

[Muta]

I guess he's not... Good... for the company anymore

[Ozy_Flame]

You would think they would be writing him off now so that they don't further invest in a guy who isn't going to re-sign, especially if it gives him momentum going to promotion like AEW afterwards. This also raises me suspicion that WWE is really not happy with this decision, even after apparently offering him a 7 figure/year deal for a new five year contract. Sounds like it really did come down to creative issues.

I think if this is true - we will have seen the last of Dean in wrestling for quite some time. Guy doesn't have social media or wants to be in the spotlight for the wrong reasons.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wow what a horrible way for your last appearance to happen.


Loses a blow off to Seth. Loses a stare down to Nia Jax.


They might as well have had Hornswoggle dressed as Stone Cold come out and deliver a stunner before flipping him the bird and pouring beer on him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

WWE already released a statement on their front page:

https://www.wwe.com/article/dean-amb...g-wwe-contract

Dean Ambrose (Jonathan Good) will not be renewing his contract with WWE when it expires in April.

We are grateful and appreciative of all that Dean has given to WWE and our fans. We wish him well and hope that one day Dean will return to WWE.

They have never done this before and would not normally do this . . . I can't help but think this could be a work? Unless Dean made them say that? Wowzers.

Probably just means we are not going to see him on TV anymore.

No reason to have him the in the WM build or in a match with those rumours out there.

When that happens you end up with Lesnar v. Goldberg at WM20.

Originally Posted by Muta

That's how NJPW books its talents. They're just turned up versions of themselves, not heels or faces. It works well, since the fans will cheer and jeer for who they want anyways. The way talent is booked is not 'faces versus heels'; rather, its whatever personalities organically clash and NJPW just facilitates the eventual match. Personally, I think this is a much better booking style, and doesn't force ####ty feuds down people's throats.

This is what I was getting at.

Wrestlers get over usually by showing an edgier version of there natural personality. Attitude era, NWO (at first), NJPW all thrive on this mentality. Right now Vince wants to go back to the 80s where you could force fit the wrestler to the image you wanted and think the fans will still cheer them.

In WWE that happens and then they completely neuter the character to the point where they are no longer the person that go over with fans in the first place. (IMO the most recent example is Cocky heel AJ vs. Eat Your Hot Dogs and Be Happy AJ).

[Ozy_Flame]

Hideo Itami has also requested his release from WWE.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1090472681944875009

Itami also recently changed his Twitter handle back to KENTA, and tweeted this today:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1090473371924492289

Poor guy was part of that power core of NXT guys in 2014 with Owens, Zayn and Balor, but just couldn't get off the ground due to that huge injury he suffered. I really wished he had a better fate in WWE, I remember being super pumped when he was signed, it was the start of WWE finally realizing serious foreign talent and building the NXT brand. Even Hulk Hogan was on hand for the signing in Japan.

Had some great matches with Breeze, Roode, Strong, and others. Gonna miss that guy, he was one of my favorites.