Stats: Before and After the Great Suttering of 2021

[FanIn80]

No real reason, other than to maybe spur some discussion.

Before (up to and including March 4th)
http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

After (March 5th until now)
http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

[Makarov]

Those are ugly (Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Monahan especially).

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Those are ugly (Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Monahan especially).

I think Gaudreau and Tkachuk are coming along.

Playing Ritchie with Gaudreau and Monahan for 15 games made zero sense and had to have contributed to their lacklustre performance.

[FanIn80]

Also of note...

Before
24 games in 50 days, 0.48 games per day.

After
20 games in 45 days, 0.44 games per day.

[1qqaaz]

Lindholm's 18 points in 20 games are impressive how how little the team scores.
Really, he has a very large lead in team scoring.

He also has the most goals and assists, the best plus/minus and the highest TOI among forwards.

[Bingo]

Some team stats ...

CF60
Before 55.1
After 56.1

CA60
Before 53.4
After 47.7

SF60
Before 29.6
After 28.7

SA60
Before 30.7
After 25.8

xGF60
Before 2.26
After 2.09

xGA60
Before 2.10
After 1.88

HDCF60
Before 10.6
After 9.0

HDCA60
Before 10.1
After 8.5

MCF60
Before 15.8
After 16.8

MDCA60
Before 14.9
After 14.4

LDCF60
Before 24.6
After 26.8

HDCA60
Before 24.7
After 21.7

SH%
Before 7.9%
After 7.8%

SV%
Before 92.2%
After 89.8%

Would be interesting to see the team's record if they had Ward's save percentage.

[Vinny01]

I am pretty surprised that the Flames have been as bad as they have under Sutter and I was pretty convinced when he was hired they would springboard up the standings and make the playoffs. With all the talk to the system staying the same and the execution needing to be improved I figured they would just get dialed in and make a run.

I can see why some fans are done with this team. I am definitely demanding significant change this offseason and would say this team is in the 2012/13 range for the Flames and they get one more chance to push for the playoffs with a veteran coach but if they fail and are in or near the bottom in the first 20-30 games of the season then the year down and rebuild should begin and it should happen with a new GM.

I think they need to make huge core changing moves this summer and come back with a retooled team and a full training camp.

[ComixZone]

Awesome posts.

The only thing to really surprise me is Tkachuk’s drop in production under Sutter.

I fully expected to see Monahan and Gaudreau struggle under Sutter, and there it is - although some of that must be linked to time spent with Brett Ritchie, but it doesn’t fully excuse their futility.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Awesome posts.

The only thing to really surprise me is Tkachuk’s drop in production under Sutter.

I fully expected to see Monahan and Gaudreau struggle under Sutter, and there it is - although some of that must be linked to time spent with Brett Ritchie, but it doesn’t fully excuse their futility.

I never thought Tkachuk was a Sutteresque player. He has grit, and hits. But he also doesn’t skate particularly hard, he tries cute plays instead of straight ahead ones and he doesn’t play at pace.

Mangiapane, Dube, Lucic, Lindholm to an extent - those are Sutter types. Downstream, Ryan, Ritchie, Nordstrom are Sutter types.

[powderjunkie]

Lindholm's TOI down by nearly 3mins but production still great.

Gio and Hanifin each playing 2min more per game. Nesterov/Valimaki TOI down, with Stone playing more than both.

Most top forwards TOI reduced except for Backlund.

Lucic and Ryan up by 2mins, Nordstrom up by 3.

[FanIn80]

One thing I've really noticed about Monahan is his how often he's winning faceoffs now, and the stats seem to confirm it: 46.6 before 51.7 after.

Faceoff stats before
http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

Faceoff stats after
http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

One thing I've really noticed about Monahan is his how often he's winning faceoffs now, and the stats seem to confirm it: 46.6 before 51.7 after.

Clean wins too, otherwise I’d be tempted to say his linemates were more aggressive in helping than Gaudreau and Ritchie/etc.

He was great in the dot against Montreal especially in the win. The whole team was as a matter of fact. I think faceoffs are often won by being focussed and ready, and that’s something Sutter seems to improve for a team.

[FanIn80]

5v5 Puck Possession among D-men (takes a while to load):

Before
http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

After
http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

[Monahammer]

Hanifin has seemingly exploded back to his former offensive ability under sutter, which is strange.

Of course notable drop off in production from Tkachuk, Monahan, and Gaudreau. But also, how putrid is the depth scoring under Sutter? Ryan only 3 points in 20 games. Barf.

Worst player under Sutter: Rasmus Andersson. 2 assists in 20 games and a -7. Looks lost out there often.

[Classic_Sniper]

Really not surprising to see Gaudreau and Monahan's numbers tanking. I mean, how could their production not drop when those 2 were playing dump and chase every rush. Now Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk have found some serious chemistry and are breaking out beautifully out of their own zone, which is giving them a lot of scoring chances every game. I think that line is ready to breakthrough pretty soon and start putting up goals/points every game. They look amazing.

Tkachuk and Gaudreau look incredible together cycling at times and they read really well off eachother and I have to say, I think Lindholm is a better finisher than Monahan is. He's been whiffing on a few shots in the slot, but once he starts working on his one timer a bit more in practice, I think the goals will really start to pile up.

[Savvy27]

Taking a look at the forwards since Sutter took over, it is incredible how much Monahan has struggled.

According to this forwards shot attempt table, Monahan is dead last in shot attempt % among forwards (14/14) and is the only forward on the team that is under the 50%.

Combine that with only 8 points (6EV, 2PP) in 20 games and it's clear there is a problem. It's not icetime, since he's been getting more even strength icetime than Lindholm, who is producing. The problem may be Brett Ritchie, who is not good and whose on ice goals for % is 23% (which is incredibly bad and about 18% lower than anyone on the team not named Monahan [35.7%]).

It's hard to find anything really positive to say. Monahan has fallen off a cliff and there does not seem to be an effort issue, so other than moving him at an all time low value-wise, I don't know what they can really do other than keep him away from Johnny.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Taking a look at the forwards since Sutter took over, it is incredible how much Monahan has struggled.

According to this forwards shot attempt table, Monahan is dead last in shot attempt % among forwards (14/14) and is the only forward on the team that is under the 50%.

Combine that with only 8 points (6EV, 2PP) in 20 games and it's clear there is a problem. It's not icetime, since he's been getting more even strength icetime than Lindholm, who is producing. The problem may be Brett Ritchie, who is not good and whose on ice goals for % is 23% (which is incredibly bad and about 18% lower than anyone on the team not named Monahan [35.7%]).

It's hard to find anything really positive to say. Monahan has fallen off a cliff and there does not seem to be an effort issue, so other than moving him at an all time low value-wise, I don't know what they can really do other than keep him away from Johnny.

Sutter seems to really like Monahan. The previous line obviously wasn’t working. His new line worked well the first game, but dropped off a bit. The younger guys both have had young guy consistency issues in the past so it’s too early to tell. On paper that line should work.

I’d imagine Monahan’s ES ice time has dropped since the line switch compared to Lindholm. Monahan’s line takes really short shifts which I think is too bad, because they aren’t on long enough to develop plays. Monahan is also getting less PP time because he’s not on Unit 1 and he’s been put on PK which evens out the ice time, but obviously not the production.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

This is likely a massive oversimplification, but does anyone else feel like the team basically took a full year off their progression post Peters firing?

Simply looking at on ice stuff, this team was struggling under Peters for the first half of last season, but it appeared from a far that it was because the team was being forced to play a more responsible game, vs. trying to rely on the run and gun style that led to 1st place in the division the year before, but was a disaster in the playoffs. When Ward came in, feels like that was mostly abandoned, and was enough for this team to squeak in again (in a weird season) but once again not close to good enough to have any playoff success.

Feels to me like Sutter is aware that evolution needs to happen, and has forced it (no surprise) even if it's at the expense of the short term results. I'm not saying that to make excuses for the players or to say player changes aren't needed, but I wonder if we are seeing that in say a player like Tkachuk's results..........short term, he's having to learn the game at this level a little, and will be better for it in short order down the road.

[Finger Cookin]

Just three more years!

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Awesome posts.

The only thing to really surprise me is Tkachuk’s drop in production under Sutter.

I fully expected to see Monahan and Gaudreau struggle under Sutter, and there it is - although some of that must be linked to time spent with Brett Ritchie, but it doesn’t fully excuse their futility.

Backlunds 14 points in 19 games doesnt surprise you?

Considering the way you talk about him I thought that would be a big shocker!