This conflict gets a bit personal and worrisome for me. My wife is Ukrainian and her family lives 5 km from the Russian border just north of Kharkiv. Last time we went to visit them we were driving back to Kharkiv from their village and one side of the road was Ukraine. The other side was Russia. It was pretty surreal for me to see it that close up. The first thought that went through my head was "this is where the tanks come rolling through if they invade".
Whenever my wife calls her friends and family it's pure stress when they talk. We told her parents to have an "escape" baggage ready just in case. Clothes, money, food, etc. If #### goes down, take Babushka and gtfo and we will do what we can to help financially if needed. Luckily they have a car unlike most of their village. Maybe it's overkill, but like I said, they are 5km from the border and a bunch of troops in Ukraine are being stationed in Kharkiv just in case due to Kharkiv being a majority Russian speaking city. Who knows what kind of "help" Putin will offer to them. Apparently the mayor of Kharkiv had some kind of under the table deal (aka classic Russian extortion) with the Russians that was supposedly keeping them out of the drama. The mayor died from covid this year so my wife says there's some chatter in the city that the 'deal is off'. Might just be some Orange Julius-type gossip but I found it interesting.
If there is any one person in the world that I wish death upon, it is that khuylo Putin. It absolutely sickens me POS psychopath politicians like him get to play with the lives in innocent people in their lust for power. This is such a useless conflict from a giant POS who caused it in the first place. While I don't want WWIII to break out, I also feel guilty for hoping the US/Nato actually do something about it. Not sure what that solution is, but can only pray Putin's Parkinson's disease which he is rumored to have takes his life sooner than later.
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Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
The propaganda in Russia is full on crazy. They are trying to convince their people that Russian families in countries where Russians are a minority, have their babies stolen from them. Here's compilation video of some of the crazy things they say on the news there:
We have that channel on our cable box. It is the OAN trash of Russia. Their round-panel political "discussions" are a bunch of hypocritical goofballs that spew garbage with everything they speak. When my wife translates for me it's literally a bunch of news stories that make Ukrainians look bad followed a discussion about how terrible they are, how they oppress Russia, how the US hates them, blablabla.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 04-21-2021 at 04:54 AM.
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Hope this is true and not the ol' head-fake maneuver...
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Russia will begin withdrawing its military forces from the Ukrainian border starting Friday, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced Thursday, after the buildup had raised alarms in the West of renewed clashes.
....
“I believe that the goals of the snap inspection have been fully achieved,” Interfax quoted Shoigu as saying. “The troops demonstrated the ability to reliably defend the country.”
"The troops have demonstrated their ability to ensure a reliable defence of the country," said Russia's defence minister Sergei Shoigu in a press release, adding: "So I decided to complete the inspection activities in the southern and western military districts" bordering Ukraine.
If they wanted to see if they could effectively defend Mother Russia, they should have built up the troops, with a side order of war games, on the Chinese border.
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If they wanted to see if they could effectively defend Mother Russia, they should have built up the troops, with a side order of war games, on the Chinese border.
Aside from the fact the Russians were likley liying for the reason of the troop build up... does Russia leadership actually live in fear of an invade or is it all propaganda for the masses?
Russia is a snake pit from what I understand, and ever inch of land would be hell to take. No one in their right mind wants to invade Russia.
I actually don't think Russia was ever going to invade or annex territory in eastern Ukraine. I believe their game plan in the Donbass and Lugansk areas is different than than it was in Crimea. Crimea was part of Russia proper until 1954 when the Soviet Union transferred it from Russia to Ukraine. I don't agree with their occupation and annexation, but the optics of it are different as there are still people alive today that remember it being part of Russia. And while Russia was obviously the central power and senior partner in the Soviet Union, there is the notion that the Soviet Union was a corrupt federation that didn't have the right to transfer territory.
I think their game plan in Eastern Ukraine isn't to annex it. They know that if the more heavily Russian populated areas are removed from Ukraine, then Ukraine will turn to the West and never look back. The only thing that stops that from happening is the strong Russian influence in the eastern portion of the country and how it affects the balance of power in Kyiv. They want to force those areas to gain autonomy within Ukraine so that they can open their borders with Russia and allow more Russians to move in. They want to use that area to increase the Russian demographic and therefore increase Russian power in the Ukrainian government to prevent them from moving further West.
Like I said before, Russia plays the long game. This whole show bought enough time for pro-Russian factions to fortify while Ukraine backed down. It's actually a really smart tactic by Russia even though I disagree with the morality.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 04-24-2021 at 12:59 AM.
Aside from the fact the Russians were likley liying for the reason of the troop build up... does Russia leadership actually live in fear of an invade or is it all propaganda for the masses?
Russia is a snake pit from what I understand, and ever inch of land would be hell to take. No one in their right mind wants to invade Russia.
The area of Russia between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea is their Achilles Heal. Those ports are extremely valuable and the area is difficult to defend. Ukraine, due to the nature of the terrain, is a vector for which an invading army could "theoretically", invade Russia. That, combined with the tedious situation in places like Chechnya and Dagestan, make it a weak point if an invading army ever did come through. If Ukraine looked West and joined NATO, Russia would see it as a huge risk.
While we know that any invasion of Russia in our lifetime seems extremely unlikely, the fear is something ingrained in their national psyche going all the way back to the Mongol hordes and was only reinforced by Napoleon and WW2. When something is ingrained and indoctrinated over centuries, it is almost impossible to change that.
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While we know that any invasion of Russia in our lifetime seems extremely unlikely, the fear is something ingrained in their national psyche going all the way back to the Mongol hordes and was only reinforced by Napoleon and WW2. When something is ingrained and indoctrinated over centuries, it is almost impossible to change that.
Exactly, this smacks of Russian political and military leadership living in the past. If there were to be a Western invasion of Russia, which is HIGHLY unlikely, NATO wouldn't be marching millions of soldiers through Ukraine.
I think this also has to do with the fragile Russian ego, which Putin plays too on a regular basis. They are trying to remind the world, and more importantly themselves, that they are relevant and a 'major player'. These war games are just as much domestic policy as international.
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While we know that any invasion of Russia in our lifetime seems extremely unlikely, the fear is something ingrained in their national psyche going all the way back to the Mongol hordes and was only reinforced by Napoleon and WW2. When something is ingrained and indoctrinated over centuries, it is almost impossible to change that.
I am no fan of Russia, but sometime people forget the cost of WW2 to that nation.
They lost so many people (granted some where at their own hand), taking 26-27 million or so dead (civilian & military) leaves big big scar on a nation. Then wrap it up in a bandage of State Propaganda.
We in the West sometimes forget the price the Eastern Nations paid for that victory.
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I am no fan of Russia, but sometime people forget the cost of WW2 to that nation.
They lost so many people (granted some where at their own hand), taking 26-27 million or so dead (civilian & military) leaves big big scar on a nation. Then wrap it up in a bandage of State Propaganda.
We in the West sometimes forget the price the Eastern Nations paid for that victory.
This video always makes me sick to my stomach... and slightly motivated as any day I am having is better than these poor people
It shows the sacrifice made on the eastern front.
The sheer manpower Germany had always surprises me.
10-20 million soviet civilians died
Last edited by Mull; 04-25-2021 at 02:14 PM.
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Every time I think of the Eastern front the movie quote "the one with the rifle shoots!" comes back to me. You know its a great movie if you can remember the quote after 20 years.
I am no fan of Russia, but sometime people forget the cost of WW2 to that nation.
They lost so many people (granted some where at their own hand), taking 26-27 million or so dead (civilian & military) leaves big big scar on a nation. Then wrap it up in a bandage of State Propaganda.
We in the West sometimes forget the price the Eastern Nations paid for that victory.
While that is true, their policy of using other nations as meat shields to protect Russian interests pre-dates WW2. At the start of the war, they were more than happy cooperating with Nazi Germany to partition Europe and even helped them conquer Poland. They also tried to take Finland and Romania without provocation. To many people in Eastern Europe, the Russians were seen as every bit as antagonists as the Nazis. The brutality of the Soviet Union is the main reason almost every country in Europe had significant numbers of Nazi sympathizers. The Western nations had already forsaken them and were then betrayed by them after the conclusion of the war.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 04-25-2021 at 02:59 PM.
And let's not forget the Stalinist tactic of throwing bodies at machine gun fire to overwhelm the enemy with shear numbers. As Stalin is purported to have said: one death is a tragedy, 1 million is a statistic.
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While that is true, their policy of using other nations as meat shields to protect Russian interests pre-dates WW2. At the start of the war, they were more than happy cooperating with Nazi Germany to partition Europe and even helped them conquer Poland. They also tried to take Finland and Romania without provocation. To many people in Eastern Europe, the Russians were seen as every bit as antagonists as the Nazis. The brutality of the Soviet Union is the main reason almost every country in Europe had significant numbers of Nazi sympathizers. The Western nations had already forsaken them and were then betrayed by them after the conclusion of the war.
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Originally Posted by Red Slinger
And let's not forget the Stalinist tactic of throwing bodies at machine gun fire to overwhelm the enemy with shear numbers. As Stalin is purported to have said: one death is a tragedy, 1 million is a statistic.
I don't think anyone, including undercover brother, was praising USSR leadership for their war crimes in Poland or allying with Hitler....
I think the simple point is, the people of Russia/USSR paid a horrible toll in securing our freedom. The West tends to minimize this in media, as we do what is human nation, focus on our own stories.
It doesn't matter how much was self inflicted by their leaders, millions of humans died to help secure our freedom who had no say in the matter.
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Putin's basic tactic is fairly simple, start doing something and see what the world does, if there is push back then slow down or stop, if there isnt push harder, as such massing troops is a simple tactic, if the west does nothing then bite off a bit of the Ukraine, if there is push back then smile and say it was an 'exercise' and pull back, preferably while extracting a concession at the same time
Putin's greatest triumph may end up being the disinformation and trolling campaign against the west on social media. It's literally destroying our countries through division.
Putin's greatest triumph may end up being the disinformation and trolling campaign against the west on social media. It's literally destroying our countries through division.
That's exactly it. Not to make this political, but the American left's desire to paint everything as "Putin" or "Russian disinformation" or "Russian meddling" is exactly what Russia wanted. They weren't looking to actually change the outcome of elections in a meaningful way, but rather their goal is exactly what they've accomplished. Splitting the sole world power in two to the brink of a cultural civil war.
The right response is to come together as one and push back on the Russians, but instead both sides just keep playing Putin's game and increasing the divide.
I think social media itself is a big part of the problem (even absent Russia), heck, just look at Calgary municipal and provincial politics. Theyre just as nasty and divided as ever. Each social media platform is just a spot for one side to grandstand and stake their claim - look at r/Calgary, it is effectively just a spot to post pro-NDP content and skyline pics.
I think social media itself is a big part of the problem (even absent Russia), heck, just look at Calgary municipal and provincial politics. Theyre just as nasty and divided as ever. Each social media platform is just a spot for one side to grandstand and stake their claim - look at r/Calgary, it is effectively just a spot to post pro-NDP content and skyline pics.
Social media is indeed killing us in my view.
This is because social media allows people to form like minded groups, i.e. group think.
Reddit is a great example. The ENTIRE purpose is to create sub reddits for people who are into the SAME topic.
Great idea and works for a lot of things. For example, gardening, you get passionate discussion about gardening. You still have people passionately discussing the tv show Stargate, network security, or anything you can think of.
But politics, Reddit divides us. For example, you can join r/conservative (which I learned is NOT Canadian conservative, its crazy's American far right to me) and have your hate towards the left echo's back at you telling you how right you are. For example, the 3rd top post there right now is "Biden's first 100 days: Approval one of lowest in modern history, economy marks bad for new president". Now if you click the thread, you actually get people calling out the headline, but the thread still has 1,000 up votes and many many comments buying into the narrative it sets.
But politics, Reddit divides us. For example, you can join r/conservative (which I learned is NOT Canadian conservative, its crazy's American far right to me) and have your hate towards the left echo's back at you telling you how right you are. For example, the 3rd top post there right now is "Biden's first 100 days: Approval one of lowest in modern history, economy marks bad for new president". Now if you click the thread, you actually get people calling out the headline, but the thread still has 1,000 up votes and many many comments buying into the narrative it sets.
I notice this in a lot of Alberta conservatives. They just start speaking American conservative talking points and when you point out that we're in Canada and while we have our own issues, things are different, you get a blank look.
The look says "I'm so balls deep in my rabbit holes that I don't differentiate between America and Canada anymore, it's just "****ING LIBERALS, OUR SIDE IS RIGHT!!!!!!".
I notice this in a lot of Alberta conservatives. They just start speaking American conservative talking points and when you point out that we're in Canada and while we have our own issues, things are different, you get a blank look.
The look says "I'm so balls deep in my rabbit holes that I don't differentiate between America and Canada anymore, it's just "****ING LIBERALS, OUR SIDE IS RIGHT!!!!!!".
I think its both sides. The left in Canada loves to take on social movements in the states, and the right, well does what you say.
We had quite a few anti-trump rally's here for example, and he was a fairly elected president in 2016, even with the popular vote issue.
Canadians take their talking points from the states a great deal, as much as we pretend it doesn't occur.
I think its both sides. The left in Canada loves to take on social movements in the states, and the right, well does what you say.
We had quite a few anti-trump rally's here for example, and he was a fairly elected president in 2016, even with the popular vote issue.
Canadians take their talking points from the states a great deal, as much as we pretend it doesn't occur.
This times 1000x. Honestly, any time things like "right to choose" and "gun violence" comes up in Canadian politics it's due to things happening south of the border, and so many Canadians consume U.S. political content and news/infotainment programs that they have a hard time understanding that American politics and problems (and associated statistics) don't have any bearing here. Yet, it influences political discourse like nothing I've ever seen.
Moreso, the Liberal party, for example, is closely coordinating tactics, policies, and talking points with Democratic strategists south of the border, knowing full-well that Canadians pay a lot of close attention to U.S. news. It plays right into their hand.
