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Old 09-22-2018, 07:52 AM   #3941
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Cost estimate is low but the issue in all of these is regulatory. By being a First Nations company they are better set up to meet the duty to consult but you still have the major hurdle of getting through the NEB environmental process. And increasing tanker traffic in that area will be fought hard by environmental groups.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:55 AM   #3942
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In my opinion the biggest hurdle with a project like this is getting the funding. Who is going to step up with $12 billion to pay an inexperienced and under qualified team to build a project in an environment of extreme uncertainty. Do the indigenous groups that want ownership over this project have significant capital to invest or access to capital? Have they ever engineered, built, or operated a project before? I feel like the answer to both has been largely ignored in everything I've read about Eagle Spirit.

I mean, I would love there to be a pipeline corridor to the West Coast that we all could benefit from, but if Kinder Morgan, Enbridge, and TransCanada are walking away from similar projects after years of investment and thousands of hours of upfront work, what chance do these guys have of actually executing?
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:02 AM   #3943
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Originally Posted by Svartsengi View Post
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/the-...ties-1.4104201

I have never heard of Eagle Spirit Energy before and do not work in O&G. For those that know more about the industry than I do could this work?. They are talking about building 4 pipelines from Alberta to B.C. coast in same corridor 2 oil 2 LNG. Want to move 2 million barrels of oil a day. Cost estimate is $12 billion. They would need the federal government to repeal the tanker ban Trudeau put in place.
Not necessarily. They are a step ahead. from What I have read, they have an alternate route that goes through northern BC to Alaska. Government approvals are already in place in the US. If only things were that easy in Canada. We have become a joke. I hate that our government and a pile of paid protestors and SJWs have literally showed the world we are closed for business. It’s disgusting. I can’t remember a more incompetent federal government. The tanker ban, the inability to enforce the law and get pipelines built.

All governments (past and present) that won’t stand up to Quebec. They can pull $10 billion per year in equalization but we can’t build energy east.

We have become the laughing stock of the international business community.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:45 PM   #3944
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For Canadian politics it’s not about “standing up to Quebec”. It’s about votes. It’s not about enforcing the law in BC. It’s about votes.

CliffFletcher has mentioned it a few times and he’s absolutely right. The cold truth is that the reality is many people do not want oil and gas as a part of Canada’s economic future.

In my mind the only solution here is for mass media / mass marketing campaigns. Get the broad majority public on board with these large vital infrastructure projects that are required to leverage our souring relationship with the United States.

These infrastructure projects achieve so many key Canada first objectives. They are the tactically intelligent play. They’re great for the west’s (and Canada’s) economy, and hilariously they are the most environmentally friendly path forward!

CAPP, industry, the province of Alberta and the government of Canada should all be educating Canadians with as many facts as possible on this defining and pivotal issue. Explain how critical this is to the economy. Explain how it will impact quality of life moving forward for all Canadians. Explain the justifications in as simple, widespread and passionate as possible. Critically- explain the actual risks of these projects to the best of your ability.

The trick is turning the tide on public opinion. That way you can retain votes AND get these key projects built with confidence from the Canadian people. And do it quickly.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:58 PM   #3945
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I think the "don't let Trump control Canada's economy" choice would be a good one for an ad campaign
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:47 AM   #3946
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New Alberta refinery proposal shows China has not given up on the oilsands

CALGARY — A new Chinese proposal to build a 167,000-barrel-per-day refinery in Alberta suggests Beijing continues to seek strategic opportunities in Canada’s oil and gas sector.

The China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. (Sinopec), China Construction Industrial & Energy Engineering Co. Ltd. and a consortium of Alberta First Nations said earlier this month they have hired Edmonton-based Stantec Inc. to help guide the company through the regulatory process for a 167,000-barrels-per-day refinery project in Alberta.

“I hope they can do it. I think it’s a good idea. There’s a third of the world’s oil up in the oilsands and that’s no secret to the Chinese,” said Ian MacGregor, chairman of the rival North West Refining project. “They haven’t been able to get that oil to China and so maybe they see this as a way, if they make refined products, then they can get them anywhere.”
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:09 AM   #3947
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Talking to friends and family almost nobody knows about the differential. That to me is the key aspect of why these pipelines are needed, and the most effective factor to turning people's opinions around.

"We can not build anything and continue to subsidize Trump's economy, or the $40 million a day can stay here to pay Canadian salaries and taxes. Your choice. That money is going to go somewhere, and right now it's going to private American refiner's bottomline"
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:28 AM   #3948
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Originally Posted by DiracSpike View Post
Talking to friends and family almost nobody knows about the differential. That to me is the key aspect of why these pipelines are needed, and the most effective factor to turning people's opinions around.

"We can not build anything and continue to subsidize Trump's economy, or the $40 million a day can stay here to pay Canadian salaries and taxes. Your choice. That money is going to go somewhere, and right now it's going to private American refiner's bottomline"
I wonder how many Canadian's have heard of the Koch brothers.

"Canadian oil can only go to the US, so greedy Trump-donating jerks like the Koch brother buy it at a huge discount. That's $40 million every single day that leaves Canada. We're giving the money to big American interests instead of spending it on healthcare. Build Transmountain and keep that money in Canada where it belongs - don't let Trump win!"
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:31 AM   #3949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartsengi View Post
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/the-...ties-1.4104201

I have never heard of Eagle Spirit Energy before and do not work in O&G. For those that know more about the industry than I do could this work?. They are talking about building 4 pipelines from Alberta to B.C. coast in same corridor 2 oil 2 LNG. Want to move 2 million barrels of oil a day. Cost estimate is $12 billion. They would need the federal government to repeal the tanker ban Trudeau put in place.
First heard of this proposal a few months ago. I'm not sure how much faith to put in it. Apparently they have a plan to bypass the tanker ban by putting the terminal in Hyder, Alaska if necessary. Hyder is literally a few steps from Stewart and only accessible via Canada. That would bypass Canadian law since the port and tanker traffic would be in US waters.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:44 AM   #3950
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I also understand they got FN approval before starting any processes. The only opposition was another group of FN that was also trying to build a pipeline. i believe they are on the same page now.

The brilliance in the plan is that if you put the agreements in place before announcing a plan, you don't allow the tree huggers and economic terrorist groups like the Tides foundation to step in and start paying FN to oppose. They are a step ahead.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:45 AM   #3951
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deleted duplicate

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Old 09-24-2018, 11:47 AM   #3952
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I also understand they got FN approval before starting any processes. The only opposition was another group of FN that was also trying to build a pipeline. i believe they are on the same page now.

The brilliance in the plan is that if you put the agreements in place before announcing a plan, you don't allow the tree huggers and economic terrorist groups like the Tides foundation to step in and start paying FN to oppose. They are a step ahead.
Except that won't the opposition just start up in force as soon as the project gets any exposure? If there aren't shovels in the ground this seems really optimistic to me.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:48 AM   #3953
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First heard of this proposal a few months ago. I'm not sure how much faith to put in it. Apparently they have a plan to bypass the tanker ban by putting the terminal in Hyder, Alaska if necessary. Hyder is literally a few steps from Stewart and only accessible via Canada. That would bypass Canadian law since the port and tanker traffic would be in US waters.
Yeah but what kind of tarrif will Trump want to let the pipeline cross the border ??
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:21 PM   #3954
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Except that won't the opposition just start up in force as soon as the project gets any exposure? If there aren't shovels in the ground this seems really optimistic to me.
Agreed. Canada has already shown that we are closed for business. Harper couldn't get pipelines built. Trudeau has the tanker ban in place and his $4.5 billion purchase of Trans Mountain was only a show to avoid lawsuits.

If this does go through Alaska and they already have FN approval, it will be a much easier process.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:47 PM   #3955
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Agreed. Canada has already shown that we are closed for business. Harper couldn't get pipelines built. Trudeau has the tanker ban in place and his $4.5 billion purchase of Trans Mountain was only a show to avoid lawsuits.

If this does go through Alaska and they already have FN approval, it will be a much easier process.
Wouldn't they need presidential approval (like Keystone XL) to build a pipeline into the USA? Doesn't seem likely that we're about to get a bunch of favours from Trump any time soon to me...
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:49 AM   #3956
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I mean is this any different than trans mountain? Weren’t every FN group along TMX in support of the pipeline? How will this change the ones that’s aren’t along it from doing the same thing?

Let’s be honest though, this has even less chance to be built than TMX
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:18 AM   #3957
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Bump Vancouver's new anti-pipeline mayor speaks up


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...#comments-area


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Vancouver’s incoming mayor says a revamped National Energy Board review of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion is likely doomed to fail and will land the federal government back in a courtroom.


The energy board is reviewing the project’s impacts on the marine environment and Kennedy Stewart says it’s too rushed, including a week-long window for Indigenous groups and others to apply to participate.

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“I could see this being deadlocked like the Mackenzie Valley pipeline for many, many, many years,” he added, referring to a proposed natural gas line through the Northwest Territories that was stalled for decades.

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His opinion on the pipeline expansion hasn’t changed, he said, and he will continue to back the city’s practice of supporting local Indigenous groups in their court challenges by applying to be an intervener.



This was one prime reason why the Liberal's should have appealed the FCA decision, so at least there could have been a certain definition of what the consulting process should look like. Instead we're going to be lashing in the dark, and there's no guarantee that another court case won't kill this again.


Oh, and this blithering idiot clearly dosen't understand that the whole shipping Oil east was killed by the government.


National Post Opinion Column on the government reaction on Trans Mountain


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-...iry-monopolies


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t hopefully needs no pointing out at this point that when the Ontario auto sector’s ability to export parts and vehicles into the U.S. market was threatened by U.S. President Donald Trump, the federal Liberal government hurried to come to terms with Americans on a new trade deal. When the protectionist Trump slapped tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum exports, Ottawa immediately responded with targeted retaliatory tariffs of our own, and promised immediate support to workers in threatened industries.

But when Alberta’s pipeline capacity is so constrained that it must warehouse valuable crude even as prices reach levels not seen in years, what does Ottawa do? It nationalizes the existing Trans Mountain pipeline in hopes it can expand it later. Much later, evidently. As in, we have no idea when — or if — that might actually happen. And that’s the extent of it.

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It’s hard not to notice how to this Liberal government, a threat to Canadian exports that occurs in Central Canada is a crisis requiring an immediate solution, while a threat in the West … is not. One could further compare and contrast the lack of help to Alberta with favours lavished upon Quebec’s aviation sector, or (largely) Eastern Canadian dairy farmers.

Personally, I think that this thing is done, I think it will become to convoluted, confusing and expensive, and sometime after the next election, it will be poopcanned and the government will write off the purchase price.
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:36 AM   #3958
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I have to believe that the Liberals spending 4 Bil on a pipeline project and then not building it would result in getting destroyed at the polls. I just have to belive that to preserve my own sanity.

We'll really see where the Liberals priorities lie at the beginning of the new year. If they actually care about getting the pipeline built then they will began to get frustrated with the obstructionist types. Going in to the election the Libs had a lot of time for these people because they were fresh to government and seemed to really believe there was a middle ground to find as long as they weren't big meanies like the Harper government. They will start to discover that there is no middle ground with these people. You can see that in dip#### vancouver mayor comments about the same old talking points that are completely disingenous. Not enough time, too rushed, consultation not sufficient, blah blah blah. It's all ####ing garbage and hopefully in 2019 we'll see the Liberals discover what we already know, that these opposition parties are not operating in good faith, there's no middle ground and no compromise with them. Northern Gateway killed. North Coast tanker ban. Emissions cap on the oil sands. Carbon tax in Alberta. It's still not good enough. Time to be the adults in the room and tell the whining children that they're not getting their way this time.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:16 AM   #3959
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This certainly isn't going to help. 2019 drilling forecast has been lowered, and this year was bad to begin with.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4625134/p...forecast-2019/
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:23 PM   #3960
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Cenovus was pretty clear on their plan to reduce production and live off their stored product for a while.



There's no real reason to drill at previous levels when transport levels like rail are already over capacity.
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