de Grood to be transferred to hospital for assessment

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Corral

Justice is not nearly as objective as some of you want to believe. Lets not forget dad is or was a police officer here.

And in comparison. Addiction is also a disease. But the fella who succumbs to his voices and drinks a bottle of whiskey and then runs over 5 pedestrians while driving impaired - is not getting away with no conviction and supervised walks for ice cream in 5 years.

5 people dead. Someone with a disease that needs medication. Different result. But all in the name of justice

Vengeful ignorance passed under the veil of progressivism. Lame.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Corral

Justice is not nearly as objective as some of you want to believe. Lets not forget dad is or was a police officer here.

That his dad is a cop has zero relevance to the doctors' assessment of his condition today.

And in comparison. Addiction is also a disease. But the fella who succumbs to his voices and drinks a bottle of whiskey and then runs over 5 pedestrians while driving impaired - is not getting away with no conviction and supervised walks for ice cream in 5 years.

Daniel Tschetter is the drunk cement truck driver who killed five people in 2009. His sentence was 5 1/2 years. He was granted day parole after 3, and was out on statutory release in 4.

Originally Posted by Corral

There are coloured and indigenous people held for years in psych wards without their consent or any real medical attention.. so yes I have no problem with the same fate for this fellow

First, you need to start backing your claims up with citations. Show me examples of "coloured and indigenous people held for years in psych wards without their consent or any real medical attention".

Second, I am really not understanding your purpose in pulling the race card here. Because your argument is coming across as justifying allegedly racist behaviours within the system in an attempt to rationalize your need to punish someone else.

[Resolute 14]

Oh, and I love how quickly you abandoned your "no skin in the game" argument too.

I take that as an admission that you have no skin in the game either, so are just being a hypocrite.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Corral

Justice is not nearly as objective as some of you want to believe. Lets not forget dad is or was a police officer here.

And in comparison. Addiction is also a disease. But the fella who succumbs to his voices and drinks a bottle of whiskey and then runs over 5 pedestrians while driving impaired - is not getting away with no conviction and supervised walks for ice cream in 5 years.

5 people dead. Someone with a disease that needs medication. Different result. But all in the name of justice

Do you not think that these are issues that courts and law makers have considered? No justice system is perfect. That's not possible. That doesn't mean we should lock up people who have genuine psychiatric diseases.

Yes, we treat alcoholics who drive drink differently.

Is it fair? Is it the only way we can deal with it? Maybe we're just arbitrarily drawing lines? With any law there is going to be an arbitrary line drawn somewhere. We just need to ensure the proper process is going into the decision on where to draw that line.

In this case I agree with the law makers and judges, that we should treat those with schizophrenia different than alcoholism.

[malcolmk14]

Tough situation all around. Do I agree with the lawmakers and doctors? Sure. Would I want him living next door to my family? Probably not. It’s not rational yet there it is!

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Tough situation all around. Do I agree with the lawmakers and doctors? Sure. Would I want him living next door to my family? Probably not. It’s not rational yet there it is!

Same thing as safe injection sites and drop-in centers. I'm all for them, but no way I'm ever volunteering to live near one

[pepper24]

It's unfortunate that this event happened in the first place. I read that his parents the day before were considering pursuing a mental health warrant for their son. Even the same day they were sending texts to him telling him to not do anything rash. His buddy that invited him to this party was worried about him. I don't fault the family and friend but it's too bad that they were so close to stopping this but just missed out. All these innocent people at the party had no idea.

[Corral]

I don’t agree with the UCP on very much but glad to see the Alberta justice minister call for more input from victims into the review board process.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Corral

I don’t agree with the UCP on very much but glad to see the Alberta justice minister call for more input from victims into the review board process.

I don’t get the need for this.

How does knowing that the family of the victim is traumatized by the propsepect of the release in graphic detail add any value to the process. You and I could write out what the family would say. Sounds more like Victim porn for the media to be able to report on them adding any real value to the process.

You also place this burden on the victims families to relive this every few years in public testimony.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don’t get the need for this.

How does knowing that the family of the victim is traumatized by the propsepect of the release in graphic detail add any value to the process. You and I could write out what the family would say. Sounds more like Victim porn for the media to be able to report on them adding any real value to the process.

You also place this burden on the victims families to relive this every few years in public testimony.

I can see some value in this. The gravity of the damage should be something taken into account when assessing risk of re-offending. For example, if someone with no control is yelling at people, that's not as bad as aggravated assault/homicide, and the risk/benefits of releasing them into society need to be weighed.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

It is actually just the opposite - I used to be in the camp of the "lock him up for life" group, but once someone in my life was impacted by mental health I became educated and hope to pass on my new perspective to others.

Having held both perspectives, I can say without a doubt that I was an ignoramous before to have held such a view.

Did the someone in your life murder people?

This guy was diagnosed with a form of schizophrenia after killing 12 and injuring 70 in the 2012 Colorado theater shootings


His insanity plea saved him from the death penalty but he's never ever getting out of jail, in Canada he would likely be a free man by now because "the drugs make him better"

Our justice system sucks.

--Stephanie Favel should have been in jail not pushing someone on the C-train tracks.

--does anyone know where Vince Li is living or even his name?

If I had time I could find 100's of justice failings

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Did the someone in your life murder people?

This guy was diagnosed with a form of schizophrenia after killing 12 and injuring 70 in the 2012 Colorado theater shootings


His insanity plea saved him from the death penalty but he's never ever getting out of jail, in Canada he would likely be a free man by now because "the drugs make him better"

Our justice system sucks.

--Stephanie Favel should have been in jail not pushing someone on the C-train tracks.

--does anyone know where Vince Li is living or even his name?

If I had time I could find 100's of justice failings

Well, even if you were the omniscient arbiter of "true justice" (which seems a dubious proposition), considering the Canadian criminal justice system handles ~400,000 cases each year (and ~1.5 million individual charges), "hundreds of justice failings" means the criminal justice system in Canada is pretty damn amazing. That said, criminal justice is a complex, difficult thing that will never, ever satisfy everyone (to state the obvious).

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Did the someone in your life murder people?

This guy was diagnosed with a form of schizophrenia after killing 12 and injuring 70 in the 2012 Colorado theater shootings


His insanity plea saved him from the death penalty but he's never ever getting out of jail, in Canada he would likely be a free man by now because "the drugs make him better"

Our justice system sucks.

--Stephanie Favel should have been in jail not pushing someone on the C-train tracks.

--does anyone know where Vince Li is living or even his name?

If I had time I could find 100's of justice failings

This shows the ignorance some people have regarding mental illness. Holmes wasnt spared the death penalty because he was schizophrenic. In fact he was not psychotic at the time of the shooting. He had planned the shooting for months, rigged his apartment with explosives, wore body armour and wrote for months in a journal about how he wanted to kill as many people as possible. Several psychiatrists found him sane at the time of the shooting. He has schizoaffective disorder but was not experiencing a psychotic break. He knew exactly what he was doing. And a plea deal with a guilty plea spared him the death penalty.

Just learn something. Anything.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, even if you were the omniscient arbiter of "true justice" (which seems a dubious proposition), considering the Canadian criminal justice system handles ~400,000 cases each year (and ~1.5 million individual charges), "hundreds of justice failings" means the criminal justice system in Canada is pretty damn amazing. That said, criminal justice is a complex, difficult thing that will never, ever satisfy everyone (to state the obvious).

I agree with Makarov.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

I agree with Makarov.

I agree with your agreement.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I agree with your agreement.

Indeed. Quite agreeable.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

This shows the ignorance some people have regarding mental illness. Holmes wasnt spared the death penalty because he was schizophrenic. In fact he was not psychotic at the time of the shooting. He had planned the shooting for months, rigged his apartment with explosives, wore body armour and wrote for months in a journal about how he wanted to kill as many people as possible. Several psychiatrists found him sane at the time of the shooting. He has schizoaffective disorder but was not experiencing a psychotic break. He knew exactly what he was doing. And a plea deal with a guilty plea spared him the death penalty.

Just learn something. Anything.

This isn't quite correct.

He was found guilty, after a trial. There was no plea deal. The judge accepted his plea, but that just means that the judge accepted whether he was pleaded guilty or not-guilty, for example.

Jurors did not unanimously give him the death sentence, as some took his history of mental health issues into account during sentencing.

You're overall point is correct though. Entirely different situation. Holmes was found to have a mental illness, but totally able to understand the nature of his actions as they related to the charges against him.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Another classic Calgarypuck NCR vs lock-'em-up forever thread. The same usual posters arguing the same ol' arguments. Both sides bicker back and forth to no avail. Eventually MBates comes in to give his piece, garnering dozens of 'thanks'. Cooler heads prevail and eventually the thread fizzles out.

Recycle and repeat a month or 2 later.



Can't wait to see the next iteration!

Hey guys, any threads on justice issues needing to be hit with a wet blanket of reasonably informed opinion? Asking for a friend...

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by blankall

This isn't quite correct.

He was found guilty, after a trial. There was no plea deal. The judge accepted his plea, but that just means that the judge accepted whether he was pleaded guilty or not-guilty, for example.

Jurors did not unanimously give him the death sentence, as some took his history of mental health issues into account during sentencing.

You're overall point is correct though. Entirely different situation. Holmes was found to have a mental illness, but totally able to understand the nature of his actions as they related to the charges against him.

There are also many examples in the states of people with schizophrenia who were not able to understand their actions and who were convicted anyway and now serve long sentences in jail untreated or minimally treated for their illness. It seems really barbaric but that's justice in Texas.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

This shows the ignorance some people have regarding mental illness. Holmes wasnt spared the death penalty because he was schizophrenic. In fact he was not psychotic at the time of the shooting. He had planned the shooting for months, rigged his apartment with explosives, wore body armour and wrote for months in a journal about how he wanted to kill as many people as possible. Several psychiatrists found him sane at the time of the shooting. He has schizoaffective disorder but was not experiencing a psychotic break. He knew exactly what he was doing. And a plea deal with a guilty plea spared him the death penalty.

Just learn something. Anything.

As noted, this isn't exactly correct. and your snippy comment about my learning disability is ignorant considering the fact had this happened in Canada our stupid crazy laws would likely have that nut free on our streets

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

There are also many examples in the states of people with schizophrenia who were not able to understand their actions and who were convicted anyway and now serve long sentences in jail untreated or minimally treated for their illness. It seems really barbaric but that's justice in Texas.

Jesus, you call a mass murderer jailed for life "barbaric" ? how left can a person go?