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Old 01-12-2016, 04:15 PM   #81
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Seems like a decent spot to discuss the implications of our government on the Alberta Oil and Gas industry.
Better to discuss here than the layoffs thread. And considering the two are awfully intertwined. You can separate church & state, but not state & oil!
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:25 PM   #82
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Speaking about state and oil, how about Saudi Aramco considering going public with some of their assets! They really must not have expected prices to dive so much.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-ar...ipo-1452509304
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RIYADH—Saudi Arabia’s potential sale of shares in its state-owned oil giant could include listing at least part of its exploration and production assets, the company’s chairman said in an interview Monday, countering speculation that any IPO would focus solely on its refining and petrochemical arms.

A potential listing of Saudi Aramco’s reserves presents a dizzying challenge for the kingdom, investors and bankers. The company says it has more than 260 billion barrels of proved reserves and the equivalent of 50 billion barrels of natural-gas reserves—more than 12 times the largest nonstate-controlled oil company, Exxon Mobil Corp.

Even a listing that includes only a small percentage of its production and reserves could make it too big to be included in Saudi Arabia’s fledgling stock market, the Tadawul. Mohammad al-Sabban, an independent oil analyst and former senior adviser to the Saudi oil ministry, has estimated Aramco’s total valued at $10 trillion.

“Even if you float only 5%, the value is going to be huge,” said Robin Mills, a Dubai-based energy analyst.
Can't imagine they'd actually realize true value since (partially) state controlled assets likely trade at a discount to their true free market peers.

$10T though! That's 18 Apples!
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:54 PM   #83
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The talk is them just listing their downstream assets: IE their refineries. Expected size of that IPO is $20B.

Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos...the-downstream
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:57 PM   #84
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Further to that, it makes sense to do the downstream in this market, as the margins are better at lower prices, if anything. So they may have done the math and seen that selling a percentage of the oil (upstream) company at modern lows for oil prices isn't a great idea...
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:07 PM   #85
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Well business taxes, income taxes were both higher for starters. Which taxes were lower?
All fuel taxes except for aviation fuels, cigarette taxes, cigar taxes, and the new carbon tax don't forget.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:45 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Frequitude View Post
Speaking about state and oil, how about Saudi Aramco considering going public with some of their assets! They really must not have expected prices to dive so much.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-ar...ipo-1452509304
Can't imagine they'd actually realize true value since (partially) state controlled assets likely trade at a discount to their true free market peers.

$10T though! That's 18 Apples!
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The talk is them just listing their downstream assets: IE their refineries. Expected size of that IPO is $20B.

Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos...the-downstream
The part that will be most interesting are the disclosures I think. At this point Aramco is basically a black box. Once that's publicly traded though everything is opened up and we get to see exactly what they have (or at least claim). I don't know about the regulations and requirements in Riyadh mind you, but without good disclosure, investors aren't going to be terribly interested.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:06 PM   #87
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The talk is them just listing their downstream assets: IE their refineries. Expected size of that IPO is $20B.

Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos...the-downstream
Man...that's like five Star Wars franchises!
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:43 PM   #88
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Only a few more weeks before we all get "our fair share!" Those of us who haven't moved to BC already.

http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...-delayed-again

The results of Alberta’s royalty review are being delayed again.

The review and the government’s response to it were supposed to come out late last year, but in December Notley said the results would come out in early January.

Last edited by chemgear; 01-12-2016 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:09 PM   #89
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In watching the BBC last night they said that the US just made its first major shipment of LNG out of the country, and they predict that the US will be the third largest shipper of LNG by 2020.

Does anyone know the status of our attempt to establish an LNG operation on the west coast?

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Old 01-12-2016, 11:14 PM   #90
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I'm guessing companies are delaying major layoff announcements until after the review so they can stick it on the NDP.

We haven't seen major layoffs yet???
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:20 PM   #91
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We haven't seen major layoffs yet???
Not any that the NDP care about (ie. union jobs are still cushy and good as gold).
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:08 AM   #92
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The part that will be most interesting are the disclosures I think. At this point Aramco is basically a black box. Once that's publicly traded though everything is opened up and we get to see exactly what they have (or at least claim). I don't know about the regulations and requirements in Riyadh mind you, but without good disclosure, investors aren't going to be terribly interested.
I wouldn't touch it with a 200 foot pole. Someone looks at the Ayatollah wrong and he'll re-nationalize whataever they sold of Aramco. No thanks
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:09 AM   #93
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The Ayatollah is in Iran
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:31 PM   #94
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The NDP is obviously not responsible for the global drop in oil prices and the economic downturn in Alberta. And the PCs managed to screw things up so badly last time, that Albertans were just ready for someone different to step in. Really all the NDP needed to do was to maybe stick handle their way through this downturn a little (i.e. they probably could have just stayed the course until things got better) and establish themselves as the next long-term party in Alberta.

Instead, they've managed to botch things up with a poorly timed (and delayed???) royalty review and promises of a carbon tax to the already down-trodden Alberta economy. As far as I'm concerned they got their chance, and so far, they're blowing it hard.
I agree. Many NDP apologists keep harping on the fact that the world price for oil is the major reason for economic troubles in Alberta as cover for all the economically irresponsible things the NDP have done since grabbing power only 8 short months ago.

It's akin to visiting an ailing friend in the hospital and then suffocating them to death with a pillow and then explaining to the police afterwards that you didn't put them in the hospital in the first place as your defense.
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:35 PM   #95
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The Ayatollah is in Iran
Brain fart, same difference, substitute Ayatollah for King. Same unmitigated powers.
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:57 PM   #96
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I agree. Many NDP apologists keep harping on the fact that the world price for oil is the major reason for economic troubles in Alberta as cover for all the economically irresponsible things the NDP have done since grabbing power only 8 short months ago.

It's akin to visiting an ailing friend in the hospital and then suffocating them to death with a pillow and then explaining to the police afterwards that you didn't put them in the hospital in the first place as your defense.
And those are? I take it it's a long list of evil changes that are costing companies big $$$ right now....so let's have it.

I don't root for any party, I dislike them all equally. But listening to the PC crowd it seems like the NDP is really hurting us all big time and I don't see how. I must be missing a lot.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:12 PM   #97
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And those are? I take it it's a long list of evil changes that are costing companies big $$$ right now....so let's have it.

I don't root for any party, I dislike them all equally. But listening to the PC crowd it seems like the NDP is really hurting us all big time and I don't see how. I must be missing a lot.
You are. A lot.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:22 PM   #98
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You are. A lot.
I figured as much. Now let's see them...

I will start:

1. Minimum wage went up by $1 to $11.20. Rest of the nation is between $10.30 and $12.50
2.

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Old 01-13-2016, 02:38 PM   #99
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I figured as much. Now let's see them...

I will start:

1. Minimum wage went up by $1 to $11.20. Rest of the nation is between $10.30 and $12.50
2.
If you're going to start then start with the announced Royalty review that destroyed all investment and exploration, then its delay that eliminated whatever hope was left and the subsequent layoffs due to it.

Then you can go to the fact that while business are making less money they raised to corporate tax rates just so they could stab the industry while it was down.

And thats a cute example, talk to me when the rest of the country is at $12.50 and we're at $15. You wont have to wait long.

We'll have no trouble getting a burger and fries so we'll have that going for us at least. Presuming of course that we can afford it.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:48 PM   #100
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If you're going to start then start with the announced Royalty review that destroyed all investment and exploration, then its delay that eliminated whatever hope was left and the subsequent layoffs due to it.

Then you can go to the fact that while business are making less money they raised to corporate tax rates just so they could stab the industry while it was down.

And thats a cute example, talk to me when the rest of the country is at $12.50 and we're at $15. You wont have to wait long.

We'll have no trouble getting a burger and fries so we'll have that going for us at least. Presuming of course that we can afford it.
Wow, you sound angry....I was just trying to educate myself how the NDP has ruined this province in such short time.

1. Minimum wage went up by $1 to $11.20. Rest of the nation is between $10.30 and $12.50
2. Corporate tax from lowest in the country to middle of the pack. At 12% I believe it is still lower than Klein worked with.
3. Royalty review? No, the few weeks of delay did not ruin Alberta. We don't even know the results.
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