Playground zones

[4X4]

Originally Posted by peter12

Any opportunity to punish cars and protect pedestrians is fine with me. They should be following Vancouver and making all residential speed limits 30km/h.

And well it should be, as you say, to protect pedestrians. And also to protect other drivers from the people that think Deerfoot is an appropriate place to be going way faster than everyone else. But that's not the M.O. of CPS Traffic. They're out there patrolling the fishing holes where the speed limit is slower than it should be, just raking it in.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by peter12

Any opportunity to punish cars and protect pedestrians is fine with me. They should be following Vancouver and making all residential speed limits 30km/h.

Blah blah blah we get it, you hate people who can afford houses and cars.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by peter12

Any opportunity to punish cars and protect pedestrians is fine with me. They should be following Vancouver and making all residential speed limits 30km/h.

Despite there being no actual evidence to support that kind of policy right?

Other than "think of the children" and "satisfy the city's insatiable appetite for ticket revenue".

Don't bother with the "it will save lives" nonsense either. Pedestrians get killed on high speed roads where the 30kph wouldn't apply and when they are struck in residential areas, a lower speed limit wouldn't have made a difference. One pedestrian involved collision every second day in Calgary is a pretty good track record considering how many road and intersections we have.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Despite there being no actual evidence to support that kind of policy right?

Other than "think of the children" and "satisfy the city's insatiable appetite for ticket revenue".

Slower cars get in fewer deadlier accidents. Lots of evidence for that.

We have a real problem with bad drivers hitting pedestrians.

https://business.financialpost.com/t...cd-study-finds

[peter12]

Originally Posted by 4X4

And well it should be, as you say, to protect pedestrians. And also to protect other drivers from the people that think Deerfoot is an appropriate place to be going way faster than everyone else. But that's not the M.O. of CPS Traffic. They're out there patrolling the fishing holes where the speed limit is slower than it should be, just raking it in.

Yeah, my personal preference would be to see these things zoned out more predictably instead of the haphazard way it is being done now.

You aren't fixing behaviour if all you are doing is surprising drivers with a ticket.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by peter12

Slower cars get in fewer deadlier accidents. Lots of evidence for that.

We have a real problem with bad drivers hitting pedestrians.

https://business.financialpost.com/t...cd-study-finds

At least use Calgary data. We average one pedestrian involved collision per day, with 50% being driver fault.

Last year when the whole 30kph thing was being floated, there had been 5 pedestrian deaths in residential areas in the last 7 years. None were speed involved deaths.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ch...553/story.html

https://newsroom.calgary.ca/charges-...rian-fatality/

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/woman-die...reet-1.2822562

https://edmontonsun.com/2016/05/09/f...1-8c1767e15a62

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ttli-1.3718871

[peter12]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

At least use Calgary data. We average one pedestrian involved collision per day, with 50% being driver fault.

Last year when the whole 30kph thing was being floated, there had been 5 pedestrian deaths in residential areas in the last 7 years. None were speed involved deaths.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ch...553/story.html

https://newsroom.calgary.ca/charges-...rian-fatality/

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/woman-die...reet-1.2822562

https://edmontonsun.com/2016/05/09/f...1-8c1767e15a62

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ttli-1.3718871

One collision a day seems like a lot to me.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

At least use Calgary data. We average one pedestrian involved collision per day, with 50% being driver fault.

Last year when the whole 30kph thing was being floated, there had been 5 pedestrian deaths in residential areas in the last 7 years. None were speed involved deaths.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ch...553/story.html

https://newsroom.calgary.ca/charges-...rian-fatality/

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/woman-die...reet-1.2822562

https://edmontonsun.com/2016/05/09/f...1-8c1767e15a62

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ttli-1.3718871

One collision a day seems like a lot to me.

95 fatalities over ten years and over 3000 injuries during that period. Sorry, you didn't help your case at all.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by peter12

One collision a day seems like a lot to me.

95 fatalities over ten years and over 3000 injuries during that period. Sorry, you didn't help your case at all.

50% of those collisions were not driver fault, so toss those out. A reduced speed limit isn't going to eradicate collisions where the driver isn't at fault.

And of those 95 fatalities, a reduced speed limit on residential roads that would be affected by dropping the limit from 50 to 30 would not have prevented a single one.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Slower cars get in fewer deadlier accidents. Lots of evidence for that.

We have a real problem with bad drivers hitting pedestrians.

https://business.financialpost.com/t...cd-study-finds

I wouldn't call 9 pedestrian deaths a year in Calgary a real problem. Especially when I imagine a large amount of them aren't attributed to speed.

But hey, keep pushing a lifestyle no one is interested in.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I wouldn't call 9 pedestrian deaths a year in Calgary a real problem. Especially when I imagine a large amount of them aren't attributed to speed.

It's not just deaths that are the problem. Over 300 injuries a year. Catastrophic injuries when a pedestrian is plowed into by a giant metal box.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's not just deaths that are the problem. Over 300 injuries a year. Catastrophic injuries when a pedestrian is plowed into by a giant metal box.

How many are the pedestrians fault?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weitz

How many are the pedestrians fault?

Data suggests around 21 percent. So a small minority.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Weitz

How many are the pedestrians fault?

It's about 53% driver fault pedestrian right of way.

And the pedestrians who are killed are overwhelmingly on non-residential roads. But when they are, speed is not an issue. From the links above; it was 2 backing from a driveway, one "near" a crosswalk at night, one where the driver was signaled to proceed and the ped went in front of the vehicle and one hit and run.

Edit: Fixed struck out part.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Data suggests around 21 percent. So a small minority.

I don't consider 237 incidents in a city that has millions of people cross the street a year a "real problem". I mean, unless you have an agenda.

Edit: And with Whiteout's information above its even less of an issue.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I don't consider 237 incidents in a city that has millions of people cross the street a year a "real problem". I mean, unless you have an agenda.

Edit: And with Whiteout's information above its even less of an issue.

Well, my agenda is pretty clear - in addition to being unsustainable subsidy hogs, cars also damage and destroy people on a fairly regular basis.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, my agenda is pretty clear - in addition to being unsustainable subsidy hogs, cars also damage and destroy people on a fairly regular basis.

We re-defining fairly regular basis in this conversation too?!?!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weitz

We re-defining fairly regular basis in this conversation too?!?!

Sending someone to hospital once a day is pretty regular. We haven't touched on the carnage wrought by motorist upon other motorists yet!

Edit: It's funny. Like I'm not some soft urbanite who has never driven a vehicle. I used to be certified for emergency transportation and had my Class 4 license for awhile! I know how to drive and how to do it quite well.

I am also quite aware that cars are pretty necessay to inter-city and commercial travel in this country. I am just all on board with reducing their presence within city limits.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Sending someone to hospital once a day is pretty regular. We haven't touched on the carnage wrought by motorist upon other motorists yet!

Sure if hundreds of thousands if not millions of people weren't moving around every day.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sure if hundreds of thousands if not millions of people weren't moving around every day.

There are obviously alternative transportation models which could do the same with zero deaths and injuries.