Upcoming Mangiapane contract discussion

[Macman]

He'll be getting at least what Anderson is getting, that contract is a bit on the generous side if you ask me.
6 x $4.55, that is a sweet contract.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Let's also take into consideration the context of that breakout year. Playing under COVID protocols and against the weakest division in the league. Would he be able to repeat those numbers against a full roster of teams? How much impact would the wear and tear of travel have his success? It is very likely that almost all players in the Canadian division sees a slight regression next season as all teams are brought back into the mix.

Mangi was one of the few Flames who actually improved.

And the Pacific division looks just as weak as the Canadian one.

[Harry Lime]

I believe that he will be looking for a four year contract, where he will have one more chance to cash in as a UFA at 30.

4x4.75M

[TheScorpion]

Wait. Rip "New Era"?

[lazypucker]

If the Flames is smart, extend him July 1 for $5.5 mil for 8 years... But again it is the Flames, they will let it drag and drag....

[Macho0978]

I think they should extend him this summer. 6 years 4.75 seems about right. Maybe wait until the following summer if we don’t move out any of the big 4. Only so much you can do with no pp time. Johnny isn’t staying then lock him up now before his role increases

[ComixZone]

Anyone scoffing at $6M a year isn’t paying attention.

15 even strength goals, which is the most on the team and also tied with Leon Draisaitl, Sean Couturier, Jonathan Huberdeau, and Alex Ovechkin and more than guys like Patrice Bergeron, William Nylander, Sebastian Aho, and John Tavares.

Andrew Mangiapane is a top-line play driving winger. Lock this guy in as soon as possible

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Anyone scoffing at $6M a year isn’t paying attention.

15 even strength goals, which is the most on the team and also tied with Leon Draisaitl, Sean Couturier, Jonathan Huberdeau, and Alex Ovechkin and more than guys like Patrice Bergeron, William Nylander, Sebastian Aho, and John Tavares.

Andrew Mangiapane is a top-line play driving winger. Lock this guy in as soon as possible

You might be right and he could be worth it but I doubt that is what it will take to sign him. He also might be at his peak and has never played a ton of time against good competition either in a role that typically Johnny Gaudreau has played. I would be shocked if he got $6 mil even if he committed 8 years

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

If the Flames is smart, extend him July 1 for $5.5 mil for 8 years... But again it is the Flames, they will let it drag and drag....

Not sure signing a 26 year old second liner to 8 years qualifies as “Flames is smart”

[Moneyhands23]

7x5.25 is about perfect 4 me

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Let's also take into consideration the context of that breakout year. Playing under COVID protocols and against the weakest division in the league. Would he be able to repeat those numbers against a full roster of teams? How much impact would the wear and tear of travel have his success? It is very likely that almost all players in the Canadian division sees a slight regression next season as all teams are brought back into the mix.

The other teams had even easier travel, easier conditions, etc.

[Vinny01]

There is absolutely zero reason the Flames should sign Mangiapane to a 6x6 deal this offseason that would be silly. End of the day the guy hasn’t scored 20 goals of 35pts in a single season. I get if you prorate his stats he is a 25 goal scorer and 45-50pt player but let him actually do it before he is paid that money.

If he gets 6x6 then he will sign it next offseason after a 30 goal season. If he wants to sign this summer then I am looking at less than 5M for 4-6 years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Anyone scoffing at $6M a year isn’t paying attention.

15 even strength goals, which is the most on the team and also tied with Leon Draisaitl, Sean Couturier, Jonathan Huberdeau, and Alex Ovechkin and more than guys like Patrice Bergeron, William Nylander, Sebastian Aho, and John Tavares.

Andrew Mangiapane is a top-line play driving winger. Lock this guy in as soon as possible

Does Andrew Mangipange seem like the odd man out in that list of names? Yes, he does. And for good reason. He does not bring the same level of dynamic skill to the game the other players on your list do. Sure, he had a good compressed year, but he is not a $6M player and any team that gives him that type of coin is certain to rue that mistake. Hasn't broke 20 goals. Hasn't eclipsed 40 points. Don't care about almosts or could'ves. When you're talking about $6M a season you need to have a proven track record of being a dynamic player. Mangipagne is not there yet and won't have time to establish that track record and still cash in big. He should be tickled at getting a 6 year $27-28M dollar deal.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Does Andrew Mangipange seem like the odd man out in that list of names? Yes, he does. And for good reason. He does not bring the same level of dynamic skill to the game the other players on your list do.

Can you back this up with anything or are we just expected to take your word for it?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Can you back this up with anything or are we just expected to take your word for it?

Seriously? You think Mangiapane is on the same level as Aho, Ovechkin, Draisaitl, Bergeron, and Tavares?

I mean, I know you are a huge Flames homer (hopefully you can control the bias to become a good reporter because I do think you have potential to be good) but give me a break.

[Skyceman]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Let's also take into consideration the context of that breakout year. Playing under COVID protocols and against the weakest division in the league. Would he be able to repeat those numbers against a full roster of teams? How much impact would the wear and tear of travel have his success? It is very likely that almost all players in the Canadian division sees a slight regression next season as all teams are brought back into the mix.

If true, hate to see what the Flames regression numbers will look like. Or perhaps they are already baked in?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Seriously? You think Mangiapane is on the same level as Aho, Ovechkin, Draisaitl, Bergeron, and Tavares?

I mean, I know you are a huge Flames homer (hopefully you can control the bias to become a good reporter because I do think you have potential to be good) but give me a break.

maybe I'm just actually a homer for good players. I actually think the Flames are pretty horribly set up for the future. but Mangiapane is a beacon of light on the team.

anyway it's really hard to judge Mangiapane's points because he hasn't been given the same high-leverage opportunities as stars around the league but his early-career production is very similar to that of Brad Marchand, who was a similarly undervalued and under-deployed player (typically averaging less than 17 minutes a night and getting very little PP time) until around the 2015–16 season.

This season, Mangiapane was the 14th-most valuable offensive player at even strength in the entire NHL (according to Evolving-Hockey's expected goals above replacement model). The folks ahead of him?

Matthews, Nurse, McDavid, DeBrincat, Chychrun, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Barkov, Burakovsky, Marchand, Robertson, Orlov, and Huberdeau

You can dismiss a guy's reputation but it doesn't really get you anywhere. These were the top guys in the league at driving offensive play this year. When they were on the ice, their teams dominated — and they were the reason. And they're expected to continue at that level.

there is literally no spin here. it's quantifiable evidence. he's one of the top producers and play-drivers in the league at 5v5. if he gets PP time, it's a very reasonable assumption that his raw points output will increase. when he was on the ice this year, the Flames outscored their opponents 31-24.

"pedigree" really shouldn't matter, and if we're basing it off history — he was one of the better offensive play-drivers in the league last year, too.

[transplant99]

I love Mangiapanes game...but what are you guys going on about??

He, thus far, is a guy that averages 35 points in an 82 game schedule. period. he is a decent 2 way guy who has a motor and skates really well. He battles and all those intangibles as well. Thats what good 3rd line guys do. Is he capable and even on the track to be better...hell yes he is. But you sure as hell dont give him the RNH and Eberle contracts before he has ever come close to earning it.

And you want to give him 6M a year?

What is going on around here?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

maybe I'm just actually a homer for good players

anyway it's really hard to judge Mangiapane's points because he hasn't been given the same high-leverage opportunities as stars around the league but his early-career production is very similar to that of Brad Marchand, who was a similarly undervalued and under-deployed player (typically averaging less than 17 minutes a night and getting very little PP time) until around the 2015–16 season.

This season, Mangiapane was the 14th-most valuable offensive player at even strength in the entire NHL (according to Evolving-Hockey's expected goals above replacement model). The folks ahead of him?

Matthews, Nurse, McDavid, DeBrincat, Chychrun, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Barkov, Burakovsky, Marchand, Robertson, Orlov, and Huberdeau

You can dismiss a guy's reputation but it doesn't really get you anywhere. These were the top guys in the league at driving offensive play this year. When they were on the ice, their teams dominated — and they were the reason. And they're expected to continue at that level.

Although an extremely subjective stat, thats great.

the game goes so much deeper than that though and he is NOT elite in any single area of it.

Great young player...with potential to be better. Thats it.

Other 6M players include Marchand, Scheifle, Larkin, Nelson, RNH, Zuccarello, Forsberg, Ehlers and on and on.

Come on.

[TheScorpion]

Can you tell me what is subjective about that stat?