The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Not when Bennett and Tkachuk were getting 11 minutes a game, that is more like 16-18 shifts. I suspect in recent history, Sam got the least amount of time with legit top line forwards of any top 5 pick between 2012-2017 in his first 3 NHL years

Less than Galchenyuk, less than Yakupov, less than Lindholm and Drouin. Less than Barkov who looked fairly pedestrian in his first 2 years. Less than Reinhart,
Less than Marner. Probably about the same as Strome got in Arizona. Less than Puljaarvi and Dubois.

Point is, most organizations actually try to develop a guy who is picked that high. There is generally a reason they are picked that high. It is rare to throw up your hands after 3 games and say you tried. Only special organizations like Calgary and Arizona seem to do that.

More then enough shifts to see what you got.

Also, minutes played is always fluid. If your line is dominating, you’re going to play more because naturally you’re helping your team win which directly helps your coach. If those guys were playing less minutes, it’s because they were likely struggling.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is what sets the Flames apart from other organizations. Other organizations with a top 4 draft pick would give that player a season or two with top players on the team before being able to make a call. The Flames can do it after 3 games.

Right exactly, you can't do it after a few shifts here and there, We saw how Hartley gave Johnny, Monahan lots of playing time together so they could develop and use those skills at the NHL level. You would think Bennett was being developed as a grinder!

[Calgary4LIfe]

I have always thought that Bennett wasn't really ever put into a position to succeed. I do think that this organization has often made poor choices in developing players. Not every player develops the same, and not every coach knows how to help players along.


I think if Hartley was retained for just one more year, I think we would have seen Bennett 'establish' himself as a centre, so to speak.


A lot of people (including myself) have disliked Bennett's utilization and line-mates. I think for the past 5 seasons, I stated that Bennett needs a line-mate that can play at speed (ever since he had Brouwer as his winger anyway).



I think that Bennett should have gotten more opportunity here, and that he earned that opportunity. Know who else has said that too? Treliving and Conroy. Conroy said it during the playoffs, early in the off-season, and apparently right after the trade happened.


I do think that Kylington isn't getting enough rope to develop, and I will argue that he has been good enough to be in the lineup. I see Dube starting to falter.



There isn't a single person on this site that will deny that Bennett has really taken this opportunity to heart and is busting his butt out there every shift. However, I think we have also seen this here in Calgary, but the only difference is that he would still get dropped down the lineup. He unquestionably earned a lot of rope with his playoff performance, especially considering he was also playing through an injury.


The trade is done. Bennett's success isn't going to impact the Flames. Bennett was also one of my favourite players while he was here too. He will continue to be one of my favourite players and I will always wish him well (except when he plays Calgary). While his success does not matter where Calgary is concerned, I sure hope that management (and coaching - especially the assistants who have been here a long time and knew Bennett very well) are figuring this crap out.


I don't want a Kylington to 'pop' elsewhere. I don't want a Dube to pop elsewhere either. I don't want to lose Phillips for nothing and see him blossom somewhere else. I want Calgary to be able to let go of players like Czarnik who don't show much, and retain players that actually have NHL ability.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

More then enough shifts to see what you got.

Also, minutes played is always fluid. If your line is dominating, you’re going to play more because naturally you’re helping your team win which directly helps your coach. If those guys were playing less minutes, it’s because they were likely struggling.

Look what Darryl and coach Q did, they played Bennett more and more. Bennett is playing in all situations in Florida and taking full advantage, and it shows.

[DeluxeMoustache]

There are a lot of mental gymnastics going on to explain why the Flames didn’t #### up with Bennett.

I have realized this isn’t an argument worth entertaining

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is what sets the Flames apart from other organizations. Other organizations with a top 4 draft pick would give that player a season or two with top players on the team before being able to make a call. The Flames can do it after 3 games.

Really? Like Sam Bennett is the only 4th overall pick to have not lived up to expectations? That’s nor fair, I feel like a lot of teams bungle up high picks from time to time, not just the Flames. Monahan and Tkachuk ended up working out pretty well for where they were drafted. Bennett was probably the only disappointment.

I actually think had Tkachuk continued to play with Bennett, he might have been sent back to London. Tkachuk was not guaranteed to stay up with the big club. He just happened to find a really good fit with Backlund and Frolik right away and he was off to the races.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Really? Like Sam Bennett is the only 4th overall pick to have not lived up to expectations? That’s nor fair, I feel like a lot of teams bungle up high picks from time to time, not just the Flames. Monahan and Tkachuk ended up working out pretty well for where they were drafted. Bennett was probably the only disappointment.

I actually think had Tkachuk continued to play with Bennett, he might have been sent back to London. Tkachuk was not guaranteed to stay up with the big club. He just happened to find a really good fit with Backlund and Frolik right away and he was off to the races.

No other team could make a call after 3 games, only the Flames have that type of insight. Other teams give those players a tonne of rope, even when they are struggling early in their careers. Draisaitl played with Eberle and Perron in his rookie year most of the time and he really sucked at hockey that year. Second year he played with Hall. Barkov played with Brad Boyes in his first year and Hubredeau and Jagr in year two. He was very average in both those years.

Sam played year one with Backlund and Frolik. He got 18 goals on that line that year. After that they buried him with garbage. There are a lot of top picks that are busts, very few are busts without the opportunity to play with the organizations top players for an extended period of time before making that determination.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Look what Darryl and coach Q did, they played Bennett more and more. Bennett is playing in all situations in Florida and taking full advantage, and it shows.

Well, Darryl played the bottom 6 more in general, so it wasn’t just Bennett. So it’s not like Darryl saved Sam Bennett or something and it’s a joke that that specific narrative continues to be talked about; unless 1 goal in 15 games is a high standard or something. Plus, if I’m not mistaken, I think that goal was the shot going wide that Broissoit ended up scoring on himself.

Regardless, Bennett was never going to work out here. He would’ve needed to surpass 3 established centers and quite simply put, the Flames don’t have the dynamic players that Florida has and we don’t play the all out offensive style Florida plays. Darryl’s system is a defense first style with a lot of checking and dump ins. Maybe had Monahan had been traded for an elite winger, perhaps Bennett could’ve had the 2nd line and the players to succeed with, but it never happened.

[memphusk]

I love that Bennett is haunting peoples dreams.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Darryl, like all coaches, had an adjustment period (1 goal in 15 games haha - 6 points in his last 6)

It’s above my pay grade to place that precisely

Bennett had complimentary comments about his level of enjoyment under Darryl, Darryl reportedly said he wished he coached Sam longer, Sam enjoyed an expanded role under Darryl including PK (notably successful).

Hm, a player who said he enjoyed playing under the new coach, and 6 points in his last 6 or 5 in his last 4

13 points in 9 games with his new team

Yeah. He was never going to work out

Not under this GM

Lol

Extend the GM

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

No other team could make a call after 3 games, only the Flames have that type of insight. Other teams give those players a tonne of rope, even when they are struggling early in their careers. Draisaitl played with Eberle and Perron in his rookie year most of the time and he really sucked at hockey that year. Second year he played with Hall. Barkov played with Brad Boyes in his first year and Hubredeau and Jagr in year two. He was very average in both those years.

Sam played year one with Backlund and Frolik. He got 18 goals on that line that year. After that they buried him with garbage. There are a lot of top picks that are busts, very few are busts without the opportunity to play with the organizations top players for an extended period of time before making that determination.

Well didn’t moving Tkachuk to the Backlund and Frolik line work out in the end? Like I’ve said already, that line was the MVP of the team and they were the only reason the Flames made the playoffs that season.

Look at it from the perspective of the coach. Say you were in GG’s position, you’re a young coach, barely established, might be your last shot. Do you just continue throwing Bennett out there with Tkachuk to maybe see if they can develop chemistry and probably miss the playoffs, or do you go with the 3M line which had instant chemistry which helps you win?

For me, I would’ve taken the latter because it’s a cut throat league and careers can be short. It’s not just about what’s best for one individual, it’s about what’s best for the team and what gets you the most wins. If a coach needs 20 games to figure out that something isn’t working or likely isn’t going to work, then heck, I don’t think that guy should be a coach at this level.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ coach has a lot of objectives

- Make the playoffs
- Best blend of 12
- Player development

Hard job that earns a lot of money and has ~70 million of assets for which you’re responsible

Nobody said it would be easy

Job involves balancing and maximizing all assets. It’s a choice to prioritize your investments

Inexperienced GM hires inexperienced coach. Expected results?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ Darryl, like all coaches, had an adjustment period (1 goal in 15 games haha - 6 points in his last 6)

It’s above my pay grade to place that precisely

Bennett had complimentary comments about his level of enjoyment under Darryl, Darryl reportedly said he wished he coached Sam longer, Sam enjoyed an expanded role under Darryl including PK (notably successful).

Hm, a player who said he enjoyed playing under the new coach, and 6 points in his last 6 or 5 in his last 4

13 points in 9 games with his new team

Yeah. He was never going to work out

Not under this GM

Lol

Extend the GM

So what was that first game where he popped against Montreal then? An anomaly? Because a lot of people swore that was turning point for Bennett. Then he proceeded to be shut out for 8 games. Yes, he had a nice stretch afterwards, but I don’t buy the narrative that he just figured it out and was going to go a point per game the rest of the season because well, Darryl. He was playing on the 4th line for crying out loud, it was very much possible that he would’ve gone the next 6 games pointless.

It’s over. Sam Bennett is a Panther now and there’s nothing any Flames fan can do about it. So just enjoy what he’s doing as a Florida Panther now. He’s having fun, playing with confidence up the ying yang right now and he’s gonna get a real nice payday out of it. We as Flames fans got some nice memories and a decent return out of him. So it’s time to move on and focus on how to make the red and yellow better tomorrow, rather than yesterday.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ coach has a lot of objectives

- Make the playoffs
- Best blend of 12
- Player development

Hard job that earns a lot of money and has ~70 million of assets for which you’re responsible

Nobody said it would be easy

Job involves balancing and maximizing all assets. It’s a choice to prioritize your investments

Inexperienced GM hires inexperienced coach. Expected results?

I don’t know...how’s Toronto doing?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t know...how’s Toronto doing?

Haha, touché!

Well played, I chuckled

The only missing piece, I guess, was tanking for the league leading goal scorer ?

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by New Era

Here to eat crow. Bennett has found his groove in Florida. A big part of that groove is getting the puck to Huberdeau and Barkov, but he has been very efficient in doing that. Give him props. He's adapted and become a player that can contribute to a winner. Still glad he's gone, but happy for him finding someplace where he can contribute.

Not ####ing nearly enough. You acted like that annoying uncle pretending to be a know it all that suddenly disappears when shown to be a blow hard. Bennett is not a bust. Never effing was. I love the passive aggressive props to his line-mates BTW. Glad he’s gone?!! What? Because we have too many north/south hard nose players willing to fight and do what it takes? Got it.

[Saqe]

I have a hard time believing that after six years of disappointment Bennett suddenly has figured it out and turned into a better player overnight with the Panthers. This is the same player that the Flames had, a player that was clearly misused.

[Nelson]

It's pretty amazing that Sam Bennett has more points during his first 9 games in Florida than he had during the entire 19-20 regular season.

He's also averaging 4 shots per games, which is interesting.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I have a hard time believing that after six years of disappointment Bennett suddenly has figured it out and turned into a better player overnight with the Panthers. This is the same player that the Flames had, a player that was clearly misused.

Why? He's been on a bad team, managed by a bad GM, coached by bad HC's and surrounded with bad players for 7 years. Shouldn't be that difficult to wrap your head around this. Now he has Q and some decent running mates and the team he is on is young and good. The degree of success may be surprising but to me it was obvious he would turn it around to at least 35-45 point powerforward status

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Why? He's been on a bad team, managed by a bad GM, coached by bad HC's and surrounded with bad players for 7 years. Shouldn't be that difficult to wrap your head around this. Now he has Q and some decent running mates. The degree of success may be surprising but to me it was obvious he would turn it around to at least 35-45 point powerforward status

It is a testament to Sam's fortitude that he was able to overcome the Flames experience with Brad and his ECHL head coaches and looks like he will develop well above a 3rd or 4th liner ceiling.