Calgary Flames 21-22 Roster speculation

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

That would be highly off brand. Treliving, who is evidently sticking around as somewhat of a lame duck, absolutely loves signing bums like Simon, Nordstrom, Nesterov every off season instead of providing a pathway for prospects to play a role. Wouldn't it have been nice to have had Mackey, Kylington, Ruszicka and Philips earning some valuable experience versus watching some of these aforementioned bums eat up minutes.

Get ready for another season of perplexing and mainly unentertaining Flames hockey. At this point I'll be shocked if Monahan or anyone significant is moved and it will be Flames dud roster 3.0.

Ah the Dustin Boyd argument again.

Round and a round and around we go.

Sometimes players aren't ready or never will be ready. Who knows? But the Flames have graduated their fair share of youth over the years. Hardly the veteran jock block situation you're laying out.

Dube, Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson, Mangiapane, Tkachuk ... Gawdin and Mackey played early in the season when the Flames still had something to play for.

There is plenty to be pissed about as a Flames fan without reaching for things that just aren't.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Meh. The Canadiens beat a Leafs team that clearly has a 1st round playoff choke issue and a Jets team that is the first playoff team I have ever seen to expel more energy to get to the series ending handshake than to actually try and win a game in the series. It's a nice Canadian playoff story but that Habs team likely won't be making the playoffs next season and the GM will once again be on the hot seat.

There's a lot more to be excited about with a team like Montreal than the Flames right now. At least the Habs have players stepping up in the post season instead of withering away. I don't know how any Flames fan can claim another team won't be in the playoffs next year, especially one with several good young forwards and an elite goaltender. What a delusional fanbase we can be at times.

I guess we can just wait until we are all overconfident in September again with how good the team looks on paper, only to come crashing back down to reality within 4-5 weeks.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

That would be highly off brand. Treliving, who is evidently sticking around as somewhat of a lame duck, absolutely loves signing bums like Simon, Nordstrom, Nesterov every off season instead of providing a pathway for prospects to play a role. Wouldn't it have been nice to have had Mackey, Kylington, Ruszicka and Philips earning some valuable experience versus watching some of these aforementioned bums eat up minutes while the team treaded water for 2+ months?

Treliving isn’t the one who assigns ice time. Sutter had opportunity to play guys like Mackey, Kylington, and Ruszicka, and he went with vets because he trusts them more. And he’ll do the same next season. These are going to be a tough couple of years for fans who want to see rookies get lots if ice time.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ah the Dustin Boyd argument again.

Round and a round and around we go.

Sometimes players aren't ready or never will be ready. Who knows? But the Flames have graduated their fair share of youth over the years. Hardly the veteran jock block situation you're laying out.

Dube, Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson, Mangiapane, Tkachuk ... Gawdin and Mackey played early in the season when the Flames still had something to play for.

There is plenty to be pissed about as a Flames fan without reaching for things that just aren't.

Dustin Boyd was relevant maybe 15 years ago...Go ahead and label it some sort of tactic if you want though.

Graduating really good prospects is not even close to the same as a GM choosing to fill a roster out with obvious no talent bums over his own accessible cheap players that COULD turn into a lot more than they are. You might even ride a wave of youthful energy and speed to a lot more than what a broken down Leivo and hapless Simon can offer. It goes on and on each and every season.

The teams that are left standing this year certainly don't follow this model of bringing in low hanging (essentially all PTO calibre) fruit every year and you know, actually have players that can play or develop while filling out the roster. Its as much the reason the Flames stunk again this year as it is the core players simply didn't get it done.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Treliving isn’t the one who assigns ice time. Sutter had opportunity to play guys like Mackey, Kylington, and Ruszicka, and he went with vets because he trusts them more. And he’ll do the same next season. These are going to be a tough couple of years for fans who want to see rookies get lots if ice time.

Sutters mandate was to try and salvage the burning outhouse that was the team he inherited. What time does he have at that point to try and convince his GM to call up players he likely has little to no book on?

It may not even be warranted, but if the alternative is tossing the keys to guys that can't play for the majority of the season like Nordstrom, Simon, Leivo, Nesterov etc. You don't have much to lose. These decisions were made and have been ongoing long before Sutter as well - who is the common denominator? It certainly isn't Sutter, Wardo and Peters.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Dustin Boyd was relevant maybe 15 years ago...Go ahead and label it some sort of tactic if you want though.

Graduating really good prospects is not even close to the same as a GM choosing to fill a roster out with obvious no talent bums over his own accessible cheap players that COULD turn into a lot more than they are. You might even ride a wave of youthful energy and speed to a lot more than what a broken down Leivo and hapless Simon can offer. It goes on and on each and every season.

The teams that are left standing this year certainly don't follow this model of bringing in low hanging (essentially all PTO calibre) fruit every year and you know, actually have players that can play or develop while filling out the roster. Its as much the reason the Flames stunk again this year as it is the core players simply didn't get it done.

I've used Dustin Boyd as a label .... fans that continue to think young players aren't getting a chance in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary.

Teams add veterans all the time because they need depth, and they're not sure if the young players have the experience to get it done.

When the young player steps up they usually find a way to squeeze him in and move the vet ... we saw it with Andersson over Stone a few years ago. We certainly saw it this year when Simon was sent packing and they began experimenting with the likes of Gawdin. Earlier in the year Mackey was getting a chance over Nesterov and Stone as well.

Mangiapane was a 6th round pick. He wasn't a guarantee but they gave him a chance.

There just isn't a case to be made here. Plenty of actual things to complain about.

Montreal added Perry when no one wanted him. Frolik when no one wanted him. They did the exact same thing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The teams that are left standing this year certainly don't follow this model of bringing in low hanging (essentially all PTO calibre) fruit every year and you know, actually have players that can play or develop while filling out the roster. Its as much the reason the Flames stunk again this year as it is the core players simply didn't get it done.

As Bingo already proved the Flames have graduated prospects.
The Habs dipped into the free agent pool too signing Perry (huge win) but also guys like Frolik and Jon Merrill. Almost every team has filled at the bottom of the roster, but we shouldn't also be surprised that elite teams have better depth.

But I 100% disagree that it's a big factor for the Flames this season. Yes the 4th line players stunk but you win and lose with your best players. If they are outplayed most nights - you won't win much.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Also worth mentioning what Sutter had to say:

'Tremendous confidence and composure of Price running off on teammates. Big D closing gaps and making it hard to get inside. Balanced attack with playoff-proven vets, sprinkle fresh legs and off to the conference finals'.

If I had to bet, it seems like the Flames are more likely to emulate this team structure, opposed to the rebuild many seem to be clamoring for.

It's kind of what I've been getting at for a while now. Sutter is all about veterans who know the game rather than having players learning on the job. There's so much talk in here about getting younger and trading vets to retool and I don't think that's Darryl Sutter at all. He's here to win every game and play the best players available to him. As we saw this season, he had no problem dropping the youngsters down the depth chart or scratching them completely for the vets. I could see the Flames being a veteran laden team next season.

Good to hear Treliving finally acknowledging Perry's contributions though even if it's too late by now. He's probably kicking himself for not putting a claim on him as it could be the Flames going on to round 3 instead.

[mile]

@CliffFletcher

You keep repeating this but history says otherwise.

Clifford, King, Voynov, Martinez, Nolan, Muzzin, Pearson, Toffoli, Shore, Forbort, Andreoff, and Dowd all saw regular time as NHL rookies or sophomores while he coached the Kings.

Had no problem using Leopold, Phaneuf, Lombardi, and Kobasew in his first 2 1/2 years in Calgary either.

If a kid is good enough to play and understands what he wants from them, he'll play them. Whenever Sutter was asked about the AHL guys near the end of the season, he admitted he knew very little about them. It's hard to expect him to slot them in when he hasn't had a training camp to evaluate them.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by mile

@CliffFletcher

You keep repeating this but history says otherwise.

Clifford, King, Voynov, Martinez, Nolan, Muzzin, Pearson, Toffoli, Shore, Forbort, Andreoff, and Dowd all saw regular time as NHL rookies or sophomores while he coached the Kings.

Had no problem using Leopold, Phaneuf, Lombardi, and Kobasew in his first 2 1/2 years in Calgary either.

If a kid is good enough to play and understands what he wants from them, he'll play them. Whenever Sutter was asked about the AHL guys near the end of the season, he admitted he knew very little about them. It's hard to expect him to slot them in when he hasn't had a training camp to evaluate them.

You’re right, if the kids are good enough to play, they’ll play. But that’s the thing, the kids proved they weren’t ready to play in Darryl’s eyes. So from Darryl’s perspective, will he roll the dice and hope that they will just figure it out in the offseason, or will he look to find his type of guys that he can depend on night in, night out? Heck, he played the heck out of Michael Stone above the Mackey’s Kylington’s and Valimaki’s.

There will be a lot of pressure on Darryl next season and for a bubble playoff team like the Flames, I don’t know what Darryl’s threshold for mistakes will be, but I doubt the leash will be long. I keep going back to the “entitlement” word he used at the end of the season and it just tells me the type of mindset he’s entering the offseason with.

[GioforPM]

The addition of Cail Maclean may mean that there’s a focus on the kids coming up, and he’s there to help them transition.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The addition of Cail Maclean may mean that there’s a focus on the kids coming up, and he’s there to help them transition.

You want the right guy in place that can help the process when you are bringing kids up, but hiring that guy doesn't necessarily mean there will be more kids coming up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You want the right guy in place that can help the process when you are bringing kids up, but hiring that guy doesn't necessarily mean there will be more kids coming up.

No, but at the very least it’s a guy familiar with the players who were in Stockton the last few years.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The addition of Cail Maclean may mean that there’s a focus on the kids coming up, and he’s there to help them transition.

Also gives Sutter direct contact with the person who can communicate to the farm...; Players transitioning traits, styles and expectations. Good to see Flames are trying to build a better base to work with.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Treliving isn’t the one who assigns ice time. Sutter had opportunity to play guys like Mackey, Kylington, and Ruszicka, and he went with vets because he trusts them more. And he’ll do the same next season. These are going to be a tough couple of years for fans who want to see rookies get lots if ice time.

He went with vets because they were better in my mind. If you are referring to Stone. Sutter’s job is to win games. I’d do the same thing.

Kylington is a great skater and passer. But Stone was the better defenceman when they started putting him in at the end of the season. By a long shot. I actually hope they find a way to bring him back next season for cheap. He’s a great option for the 5 to 7 defenceman slot.