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Old 11-11-2017, 12:58 PM   #3701
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I agree that any and all realistic options should be on the table but they all need context.

It is impressive how tbe predators have manouvered their way into Johansson and Turris down the middle.

My only issue with exploring these deals is the age of Giordano. As great as he is now, he is going to fall down the depth chart as his contract goes on.

You essentially need to have a Dougie replacement in the wings, as well as a longer term replacement in mind for Gio.

Nashville had a similar issue with Weber, but solved it by trading him for Subban.

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Old 11-11-2017, 12:59 PM   #3702
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Originally Posted by Tinordi View Post
The trade no one brigade should prepare themselves for the inevitable trade of Flames depth at D for more scoring.

Something has to happen if the prospects continue to develop as they have been.
Maybe eventually...they have 14 goals in their last 3 games though. If they continue to win games don't count on it any time soon.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:04 PM   #3703
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Maybe eventually...they have 14 goals in there last three games though. If they continue to win games don't count on it any time soon.
I have to give Ferland mad props for his play the last 4 games but his issue isn't skill or talent, it's consistency. He's eventually bound to go stone cold again so hedging your bets and getting that added scoring may be a nice insurance policy. Ferland drives me nuts because 5-10 games he's legit a top line guy and for another huge stretch he's as cold and clueless as a 14th forward coming out of the pressbox. just wish he had some balance over the course of a season.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:07 PM   #3704
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Maybe, just maybe Ferly gets his consistency down this year... He’s still young and growing his game
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:07 PM   #3705
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
If they explore that possibility, they will find that Hamilton would bring back the best piece in return, and if they believe the trade makes the team better DESPITE losing Dougie they will consider pulling the trigger, without a doubt.

It's called dealing from a strength to address a weakness and make the team better

No, it's called creating another (more difficult to fill) hole in attempt to fill another.

There is an awful lot of but-hurt from the "Trade Hamilton" camp in the last few pages.

Some people think it's not a good idea to trade the still-improving 24-year old 6'6 50 point right handed d-man (who skates like a deer). He's one of the most difficult player types to find / replace.

It's fine that some of you think it's a good idea, but the amount of foot stomping that some people find it disagreeable is a bit odd.

It doesn't mean there's anyone denying we might eventually trade a strong, established d-man for help elsewhere. That's pretty much been said by Treliving as a likely scenario should the youth keep improving.

But I find it hard to believe the organization looks to move the budding #1 top pairing d-man as the eventual trade target. Doesn't seem like that's such an oppressive opinion with regard to that topic.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:17 PM   #3706
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Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
No, it's called creating another (more difficult to fill) hole in attempt to fill another.

There is an awful lot of but-hurt from the "Trade Hamilton" camp in the last few pages.

Some people think it's not a good idea to trade the still-improving 24-year old 6'6 50 point right handed d-man (who skates like a deer). He's one of the most difficult player types to find / replace.

It's fine that some of you think it's a good idea, but the amount of foot stomping that some people find it disagreeable is a bit odd.

It doesn't mean there's anyone denying we might eventually trade a strong, established d-man for help elsewhere. That's pretty much been said by Treliving as a likely scenario should the youth keep improving.

But I find it hard to believe the organization looks to move the budding #1 top pairing d-man as the eventual trade target. Doesn't seem like that's such an oppressive opinion with regard to that topic.

Nobody thinks this is a good idea UNLESS it makes the team better because the following ends up being true:

Hamonic/Stone/Andersson/Fox + Forward acquired from trading Dougie > Hamilton/Hamonic/Stone/Andersson/Fox + NO forward acquired from trading Dougie

If it makes the team better, do it. If it doesn't then don't.

Simple as that IMO.

If you believe the loss of Dougie can't be overcome by an upgrade at forward and the rest of the RHD taking bigger roles, that's fine and entirely possible.

And just to be clear, I am NOT saying the Flames should be exploring something like this right now. Next off season would be the time to explore this and ONLY if Andersson looks undeniably ready to go and if Fox has another huge college season and signs a pro contract when it's completed. And even then only if it makes the team better.

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Old 11-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #3707
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Lol. Yeah the Flames are dying to trade arguably the best defenseman this org has had since the days of MacInnis for a small scoring winger who has one more point in two more games.
Considering Brodie is not even our current best D man I didn't even have to read the rest of what was written here. Mitch Marner is an unreal talent, is comfortable on RW, would be a perfect fit for our 1st line, and is going absolutely no where as T.O. won't be trading him anyhow despite what Kypreos might spew so it is irrelevant.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:23 PM   #3708
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
Nobody thinks this is a good idea UNLESS it makes the team better because the following ends up being true:

Hamonic/Stone/Andersson/Fox + Forward acquired from trading Dougie > Hamilton/Hamonic/Stone/Andersson/Fox + NO forward acquired from trading Dougie

If it makes the team better, do it. If it doesn't then don't.

Simple as that IMO.

If you believe the loss of Dougie can't be overcome by an upgrade at forward and the rest of the RHD taking bigger roles, that's fine and entirely possible.

And just to be clear, I am NOT saying the Flames should be exploring something like this right now. Next off season would be the time to explore this and ONLY if Andersson looks undeniably ready to go and if Fox has another huge college season and signs a pro contract when it's completed. And even then only if it makes the team better.
I'm not saying that's entirely possible, I'm saying that (in shipping out a 24 year old top pairing potential #1 D) it's the most likely scenario.

Again, it's fine for discussion sake, but there seems to be outright outrage on the previous page that people are questioning the notion of trading Hamilton.

I think there's good reason to suggest it's not a wise move.

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Old 11-11-2017, 02:21 PM   #3709
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Brodie is a top pairing defencemen on most teams.

And he's signed to an unreal contract, being a 4.65 cap hit for this season and 2 more afterwards.

Other D-Men in the $4 Million to $5 Million range include:

Kevin Bieska (spelling Cherry style)
Jason Demers
Marco Scandella
Justin Faulk
Jack Johnson
David Savard
Klingberg
Kronwall
Klefbom
Larsson
Russell
Martinez
Muzzin
Brodin
Alzner
Josi
Damon Severson
McDonogh
smith
Gostibhere ($6 Million cap hit next year)
Dumoulin
Maata
Vlasic ($7 Million Cap hit next year)
Paul Martin
Stralman
Jake Gardiner
Zaitsev
Tanev
Jason Garrison
Kulikov

From that list the only player I trade Brodie for is Josi.

I think Brodie has tremendous value around the league because of the skill set, skating and contract certainty for (essentially) 3 seasons. If he was traded his value would command a top line RW.

I don't think Marner alone gets it done.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:28 PM   #3710
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Originally Posted by killer_carlson View Post
Brodie is a top pairing defencemen on most teams.

And he's signed to an unreal contract, being a 4.65 cap hit for this season and 2 more afterwards.

Other D-Men in the $4 Million to $5 Million range include:

Kevin Bieska (spelling Cherry style)
Jason Demers
Marco Scandella
Justin Faulk
Jack Johnson
David Savard
Klingberg
Kronwall
Klefbom
Larsson
Russell
Martinez
Muzzin
Brodin
Alzner
Josi
Damon Severson
McDonogh
smith
Gostibhere ($6 Million cap hit next year)
Dumoulin
Maata
Vlasic ($7 Million Cap hit next year)
Paul Martin
Stralman
Jake Gardiner
Zaitsev
Tanev
Jason Garrison
Kulikov

From that list the only player I trade Brodie for is Josi.

I think Brodie has tremendous value around the league because of the skill set, skating and contract certainty for (essentially) 3 seasons. If he was traded his value would command a top line RW.

I don't think Marner alone gets it done.
You def have rose Dolores glasses on.

Brodies good but not as good as many on that list
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:32 PM   #3711
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Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks View Post
You def have rose Dolores glasses on.

Brodies good but not as good as many on that list

Signed for 3 years?
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:34 PM   #3712
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Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks View Post
You def have rose Dolores glasses on.

Brodies good but not as good as many on that list
I wouldn't say "many". Personally, I'd say that in terms of how "good" Brodie is, he's not as good as only Josi, Vlasic, Faulk, Klingberg, and McDonagh. That's five guys.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:35 PM   #3713
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Why do you have Dolores's glasses? You know she can't see well without them and the big cribbage tournament is coming up
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:37 PM   #3714
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I wouldn't say "many". Personally, I'd say that in terms of how "good" Brodie is, he's not as good as only Josi, Vlasic, Faulk, Klingberg, and McDonagh. That's five guys.
I'd say that:

Josi
McDonough are better with similar contracts

Vlasic's contract at $7 Mill starting next season makes it a non starter

Brodie is as good as
Faulk
Klingberg
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:39 PM   #3715
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Originally Posted by sa226 View Post
I agree that any and all realistic options should be on the table but they all need context.

It is impressive how tbe predators have manouvered their way into Johansson and Turris down the middle.

My only issue with exploring these deals is the age of Giordano. As great as he is now, he is going to fall down the depth chart as his contract goes on.

You essentially need to have a Dougie replacement in the wings, as well as a longer term replacement in mind for Gio.

Nashville had a similar issue with Weber, but solved it by trading him for Subban.

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Gio and Poirer for OEL
Brodie + for Marner
Keep Dougie Stone Hamonic and Anderson for the top 4 down the road

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Old 11-11-2017, 02:41 PM   #3716
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Just for fun, what would Giordano's value be?

If we move Giordano then Brodie moves up to the top pairing, putting Kulak or a prospect up with Hamonic.

I wonder what the demand for Gio would be on the market? You would think it would be very high.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:42 PM   #3717
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Originally Posted by killer_carlson View Post
I'd say that:

Josi
McDonough are better with similar contracts

Vlasic's contract at $7 Mill starting next season makes it a non starter

Brodie is as good as
Faulk
Klingberg
I can see this, although Klingberg's offense is tough to contend with.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:43 PM   #3718
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Originally Posted by killer_carlson View Post

I think Brodie has tremendous value around the league because of the skill set, skating and contract certainty for (essentially) 3 seasons. If he was traded his value would command a top line RW.

I don't think Marner alone gets it done.
Marner had 61 points in 77 games as a rookie, he absolutely will be a top line player if he is not already. I don't care how he is being utilized right now in TO, next to JG he would easily be our most talented forward.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:48 PM   #3719
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Marner had 61 points in 77 games as a rookie, he absolutely will be a top line player if he is not already. I don't care how he is being utilized right now in TO, next to JG he would easily be our most talented forward.
Marner needs to do it more than 1 season. Talented for sure. But let me see it over 1 season so I don't pull a Chiarelli.

In addition, Marner needs a new contract the same off season that:

Tkachuck
bennett
Ferland

also need a contract. I don't like the look of that.

Now if we could also get Toronto to take Brouwer as part of the transaction, then i'm good with it.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:56 PM   #3720
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Just for fun, what would Giordano's value be?

If we move Giordano then Brodie moves up to the top pairing, putting Kulak or a prospect up with Hamonic.

I wonder what the demand for Gio would be on the market? You would think it would be very high.


Just spit-balling here and by no means advocating moving Gio, but I wonder if there might be a Weber / Suban type deal to be made between Calgary and Carolina. They have a plethora of young stud d-men and might be looking to ad a stabilizing veteran presence.

I love Gio but a move like that could really extend our window if made at the right time (providing there's a good match there).
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