Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[WhiteTiger]

The Gov't of Alberta is requesting public input on desired changes to the Police Act and are doing a review on it. This is pretty important stuff (at least, imo) so here's your chance to have a say.

The survey is pretty quick-ish. It's your basic 5 multiple choice style. Each question has some space underneath for elaboration if you want, too. Wasn't too long.

https://www.alberta.ca/police-act-re...G5LyNGU8q1KJ7U

[Titan]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

The Gov't of Alberta is requesting public input on desired changes to the Police Act and are doing a review on it. This is pretty important stuff (at least, imo) so here's your chance to have a say.

The survey is pretty quick-ish. It's your basic 5 multiple choice style. Each question has some space underneath for elaboration if you want, too. Wasn't too long.

https://www.alberta.ca/police-act-re...G5LyNGU8q1KJ7U

Well, that was surprisingly relevant to current events. I am pretty impressed by the questions asked.

[speede5]

This was making the rounds yesterday and the police are getting roasted, today it's picking up steam cause it turns out the kid was one of the kids featured on Roger's hometown hockey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq1Kx2cAxDU

https://twitter.com/hometownhockey_/...606464?lang=en

What a mess. I can't believe how disrespectful people are these days. I would hate to be a cop having to deal with this kind of garbage.

[speede5]

doublepost

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by speede5

This was making the rounds yesterday and the police are getting roasted, today it's picking up steam cause it turns out the kid was one of the kids featured on Roger's hometown hockey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq1Kx2cAxDU

https://twitter.com/hometownhockey_/...606464?lang=en

What a mess. I can't believe how disrespectful people are these days. I would hate to be a cop having to deal with this kind of garbage.

I've seen the exact opposite - the kid getting roasted. Well, there's a thread about it already.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Well, there's a thread about it already.

I expected that but couldn't find one.

[Fuzz]

Starts here, goes for a few pages:


https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=8742

[speede5]

Thanks was just in there, not sure why I didn't search the Flames forum. lol.

Funny how social media is so much different, the facebook posts and replies I'm seeing are all anti authority. Good to see people here still have objectivity.

[jayswin]

Haha, this is literally the fourth thread featuring this story now. Main Corona, morons of pandemic, stand alone thread in FOI and now this!

[speede5]

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Starts here, goes for a few pages:


https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=8742

Thanks for the context. #### that kid.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by speede5

Thanks was just in there, not sure why I didn't search the Flames forum. lol.

Funny how social media is so much different, the facebook posts and replies I'm seeing are all anti authority. Good to see people here still have objectivity.

I find Facebook is very anti authority, and leans conservative. (Which I should say I do too) and then Reddit is very pro authority, and leans extremely liberal. Funny how 2 social media platforms can be so opposite

[speede5]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

I find Facebook is very anti authority, and leans conservative. (Which I should say I do too) and then Reddit is very pro authority, and leans extremely liberal. Funny how 2 social media platforms can be so opposite

I don't do reddit, maybe I need to start and get some balance in my life.

[GGG]

I do think this is interesting in that it shows how non-violent low threat situations can result in people ending up dead. In this case if the officer tases him he falls , hits his head on the ice and dies and this is a different incident. Or during the takedown a skate blade takes out someone’s neck.

I think missed in all of the anti mask / anti lockdown discussion is a question around escalation of force by officers. Should an officer ever escalate it a person is not a danger to the public or to escape?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do think this is interesting in that it shows how non-violent low threat situations can result in people ending up dead. In this case if the officer tases him he falls , hits his head on the ice and dies and this is a different incident. Or during the takedown a skate blade takes out someone’s neck.

I think missed in all of the anti mask / anti lockdown discussion is a question around escalation of force by officers. Should an officer ever escalate it a person is not a danger to the public or to escape?

I think we know the answers here. This case likely is seen very differently with a few changes in the circumstances.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do think this is interesting in that it shows how non-violent low threat situations can result in people ending up dead. In this case if the officer tases him he falls , hits his head on the ice and dies and this is a different incident. Or during the takedown a skate blade takes out someone’s neck.

I think missed in all of the anti mask / anti lockdown discussion is a question around escalation of force by officers. Should an officer ever escalate it a person is not a danger to the public or to escape?

This is 2020. Clearly the answer is that it depends on how sympathetic we are to the person the police are confronting.

One of the trends the pandemic has accelerated is the abandonment of the universal application of principles. It’s emotion and tribalism all the way down.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This is 2020. Clearly the answer is that it depends on how sympathetic we are to the person the police are confronting.

One of the trends the pandemic has accelerated is the abandonment of the universal application of principles. It’s emotion and tribalism all the way down.

That’s not the answer or part of an interesting policy discussion on the use of force.

This case because it lacks racial tension and lacks a severe outcome is an excellent place to start a discussion on what the police should do in these types of situations.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do think this is interesting in that it shows how non-violent low threat situations can result in people ending up dead. In this case if the officer tases him he falls , hits his head on the ice and dies and this is a different incident. Or during the takedown a skate blade takes out someone’s neck.

I think missed in all of the anti mask / anti lockdown discussion is a question around escalation of force by officers. Should an officer ever escalate it a person is not a danger to the public or to escape?

Of course the problem is long term consequences of a policy of deference to anyone who might be violent or resisting arrest. If everyone knows the police will back off as soon as someone shows some resistance. There are going to be a lot more people willing to use that tactic. For most of us, knowing the results of not being compliant will make for an unpleasant and worse outcome helps motivate us to follow instructions.

[Captain Otto]

I am not so sure it's possible to enforce the rules of the land if there are no consequences for disobeying those rules.

The consequences of failing to comply with a lawful direction after committing an offense is getting arrested. If that somehow disappears, why would anyone voluntarily comply especially those with a propensity to commit crime.

I guess if society at large wants that - police cannot use force to effect an arrest for a traffic or bylaw offense, then I guess that's likely the direction the police would go. I can't imagine how that would look though.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

I am not so sure it's possible to enforce the rules of the land if there are no consequences for disobeying those rules.

The consequences of failing to comply with a lawful direction after committing and offense is getting arrested. If that somehow disappears, why would anyone voluntarily comply especially those with a propensity to commit crime.

I guess if society at large wants that - police cannot use force to effect an arrest for a traffic or bylaw offense, then I guess that's likely the direction the police would go. I can't imagine how that would look though.

That doesn't seem entirely unreasonable, but that's not really the case at hand, is it?

He was being arrested for obstruction of justice and resisted arrest, so I think force, so long as it isn't excessive, is a reasonable method to gain that arrest.

I'm somewhat dumbfounded by some of the responses to this arrest (not yours, just to be clear). We've spent months seeing example after example of excess force (shootings, pulling lethal weapons for minor offenses, excessive force like slamming heads into pavement or causing serious injury or death otherwise) and for some people in at least some of these cases, it's been a scramble to justify it. Basically the idea that if you resist arrest, bad things happen.

But here we have a case where there was no excessive force despite the person resisting arrest. He was not shot, tased, or even injured. But some of those same people who were comfortable justifying force as a response to resisting arrest now take issue with it. Instead of it being about the application of force, it's more about whether people ideologically agree with the substance of the offence and the motivations of the offender. To me, that's a pretty dangerous precedent to set.

When you've committed an offence and you're being issued a ticket, you need to give your name. If you don't, you're likely to be arrested. If you resist, force will be applied. These seem like simple and acceptable things. We can disagree with police injuring or killing people, but to disagree with police doing their job and causing no harm seems like a desire to just have zero police at all.