A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

So one thing that’s really really bothered me. And I believe a video above touched on it a bit but it was way too long for me to watch it all. Bran becoming king is the biggest and laziest travesty in the entire series. Multiple times through the series after becoming the Raven he tells people he is no longer Bran and it’s a name he once knew. He becomes cold and distant to his relatives and then all of a sudden now he’s Bran again? What makes it even worse is:

Spoiler!

In the books the Raven is Brynden Rivers a man of magic and deception who has sought to control the kingdom for centuries. If this maintains true in the TV series as well then likely what has really happened is an ancient man has just swindled an entire country into allowing him to finally gain control in his long quest for control

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Many people lament the show going off the rails because they surpassed GRRM's source material.

The real fact of the matter is that GRRM was making crap up as he went along and the show just did the exact same thing.

The story and continuity changes depending on what George had for lunch. I wouldnt get too uptight about it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Many people lament the show going off the rails because they surpassed GRRM's source material.

The real fact of the matter is that GRRM was making crap up as he went along and the show just did the exact same thing.

The story and continuity changes depending on what George had for lunch. I wouldnt get too uptight about it.

Huh? Isn't that his job as an author? To invent the story and write it?

The type of random divergences from the previous seasons in terms of characterization and content do not exist within the books, with the exception of a couple very minor continuity errors when it comes to the age of characters pre and post 5 year gap.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Huh? Isn't that his job as an author? To invent the story and write it?

The type of random divergences from the previous seasons in terms of characterization and content do not exist within the books, with the exception of a couple very minor continuity errors when it comes to the age of characters pre and post 5 year gap.

Kind of but not quite.

Most authors have a vision and a plan. I'm not going to get into the entire process with you but George literally makes it up as he goes. Its actually pretty obvious in hindsight.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Locke

Kind of but not quite.

Most authors have a vision and a plan. I'm not going to get into the entire process with you but George literally makes it up as he goes. Its actually pretty obvious in hindsight.

lol please do get into the process. George is very public about his writing style. Everyone knows he deviates from his plan and outline. You can literally go read the original outline on the internet and read about how he lets the story dictate what comes next, not his original outline.

[photon]

It's kind of like how some parents raise their children to be productive members of society while encouraging them to be themselves while other parents let their children become spoiled monsters that do whatever they want giving up all hope of influencing them.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I watched it, yeah it wasn't as good in the last two seasons, but it didn't annoy me all that much, and to me its still worth watching. I still liked the Dany's not unexpected heel turn and destruction of everything.



There are just some must see moments as well in terms of visual moments.

Exactly. Would I have wrapped it up a bit differently? Of course. Namely Jon throwing down with Nighty. But given the timeline it wasn't "bad" TV by any means. Still highly entertaining. Even people that hated were still on the edge of their seat (as you see from virtually every reaction video) and got their share of surprises and shocks. The production quality and music helped keep things feeling epic.

Some character arcs were tied up brilliantly like Theon, Jorah and the Hound. Dany's ending felt heavily foreshadowed and therefore fitting, albeit her descent into full madness was rather sudden. Bran and Night King storylines did not give us much. Felt incomplete or like much was left out, and it didn't help that they added next to no dialogue. Didn't like Cersei's ending, but she always brought me rage so it made sense that they write her a sympathetic ending by bricks with her wounded incestual lover. Hated feeling bad for her ever, but Lena sold it so well and you couldn't help but to.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

The final two seasons will go down as one of the most poorly executed endings in the history of popular media. It is hard to even think of another series, TV or film, that had such a sharp and widely agreed upon fall from grace.

Maybe Godfather III? It's so bad Coppola is still working on it and is releasing a new cut next week.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The final two seasons will go down as one of the most poorly executed endings in the history of popular media. It is hard to even think of another series, TV or film, that had such a sharp and widely agreed upon fall from grace.

Maybe Godfather III? It's so bad Coppola is still working on it and is releasing a new cut next week.

Dexter and Lost come to mind.

[CaptainCrunch]

Oh don't get me started on Lost man

[scotty2hotty]

Agreed. Lost still pops into my head at 2-3 random times per year and still makes me angry.

GoT, I was more 'Meh ... that was lame'.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Dexter and Lost come to mind.

Lol I was going to type precisely this.

Didn't, came in to see someone else did for me.

Dexter might be able to redeem itself somewhat with the new limited series but that last season felt like a complete phone-in.

What series endings did people like? Thats a good discussion.

Breaking Bad ended pretty solidly, I think most can agree.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The final two seasons will go down as one of the most poorly executed endings in the history of popular media. It is hard to even think of another series, TV or film, that had such a sharp and widely agreed upon fall from grace.

Maybe Godfather III? It's so bad Coppola is still working on it and is releasing a new cut next week.

Maybe semantics but I thought the execution was great and delivered some of the most epic and emotionally engaging scenes in TV history. It was well executed from a Hollywood blockbuster perspective.

Relative to the rest of GoT the writing was crap, the plot full of holes, and continuity with the previous seasons was poor - so I agree with what you’re saying, execution isn’t the word I would use though.

Edit: I’ll add that I quite enjoyed the last seasons for what they were while understanding and sharing the disappointment relative to the series as a whole.

[Harry Lime]

GRRM's writing style hasn't changed in fifty years. It part of what makes him popular. He constructs a story, knows the major plot points, and how it ends in order to fulfill his vision of the message he wants to send. He is very message driven.

He also does not care about the characters or subplots along the way. It doesn't matter to him if a character dies or does any wild thing, as long as it's true to the character. It's a brilliant way to write.

It also makes it very clear that the end of the television series is not the end of the books. Because the tv series has no message or definitive ending tied to the major through line. It's contrary to GRRM's writing style. I'm pretty sure he's laughing his ass off at the way it ended on the screen.

If any character did something without a rational reason, then D&D simply did not understand the characters motivations enough to write it properly. Bran was not 'normal dude in wheelchair' at that point in the story, but that's what we got.

Sadly, you can go through the character list and see that the only thing that D&D got right was the necessary plot points, which were spoon fed to them. So many characters became one-dimensional.

I am very much interested in the story of what happened after Bran was crowned an season eight ended, because that is so clearly inconsequential.

Spoiler!

If anyone is has read the books or watched the series more recently than I, I'm willing to bet that whomever is most closely related to the First Men will be the overall victors. The Starks? I can't remember. The war between First Men and Children just makes way too much sense. And because of the way GRRM writes, everything and everybody not those two groups, are cannon fodder.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Maybe semantics but I thought the execution was great and delivered some of the most epic and emotionally engaging scenes in TV history. It was well executed from a Hollywood blockbuster perspective.

Relative to the rest of GoT the writing was crap, the plot full of holes, and continuity with the previous seasons was poor - so I agree with what you’re saying, execution isn’t the word I would use though.

Edit: I’ll add that I quite enjoyed the last seasons for what they were while understanding and sharing the disappointment relative to the series as a whole.

Yeah. Execution was actually solid. It was thrilling TV. Jam packed with major meetings, reunions, deaths, fights, endings, was well-scored and next to no filler.

It just didn't match the methodical, slow-burn, web-weaving approach of earlier seasons with all its memorable exchanges. That's what won people over to begin with.

Started off GRRM, ended pretty Hollywood with plenty of pop.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Lol I was going to type precisely this.

Didn't, came in to see someone else did for me.

Dexter might be able to redeem itself somewhat with the new limited series but that last season felt like a complete phone-in.

What series endings did people like? Thats a good discussion.

Breaking Bad ended pretty solidly, I think most can agree.

Agents of Shield to me had a perfect and satisfying ending.
Deep Space 9

[Harry Lime]

The Shield - great ending.

The only networks which are good at adhering to a set ending are HBO (when they are allowed to finish the series), AMC and BBC. English shows are very good at only airing the amount of episodes that are necessary to tell the story, and then letting go. American shows tend to want to extend as long as possible, and it's usually a disaster. Look at the Sopranos, they were one of the few HBO shows called back to make the extra buck. I haven't watched the 'final' season, and am glad it ends for me where it did.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The Shield - great ending.

The only networks which are good at adhering to a set ending are HBO (when they are allowed to finish the series), AMC and BBC. English shows are very good at only airing the amount of episodes that are necessary to tell the story, and then letting go. American shows tend to want to extend as long as possible, and it's usually a disaster. Look at the Sopranos, they were one of the few HBO shows called back to make the extra buck. I haven't watched the 'final' season, and am glad it ends for me where it did.

I've been re-watching SHIELD, just got to the lighthouse. With the benefit of foresight it's basically been a non-stop cohesive storyline so far.

They were planning their major plot lines 1-2 story arcs ahead of time, creating forward and backward ties. From my memory, I'm not sure season 6 will hold up this standard, but was definitely happy with the ending of seasons seven, I just think season 7 was a little rushed. I think there are characters/times/places they missed the opportunity to revisit.

[CaptainCrunch]

Oh Angel, great ending sequence. They realized they couldn't stop or defeat evil or halt the apocalypse. But they could delay it and make Wolfram and Hart suffer for it. And they all died.



The end, perfect.

[Ped]

It really is amazing how many shows just had terrible final seasons.


Dexter
Lost
Lois and Clark
Andromeda
Castle
Smallville

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Ped

It really is amazing how many shows just had terrible final seasons.

Dexter
Lost
Lois and Clark
Andromeda
Castle
Smallville

I've been rewatching this, and I'm going to pretend that last season didn't exist. The first four are sort of sweetly low budget, and tied together by chewed gum and twigs. The last season was made in someone's backyard. Worst last season by a mile. I don't think that it will ruin anything for anybody to say that 22 episodes of a space adventure, took place in a small derelict mining town with about eight buildings, and 80% of the cast didn't sign on.