I would like to take this opportunity to re-issue my modest proposal, stated previously in another thread, that every time someone says they're "calling someone out", they must be prepared to duel that person in the street with pistols. Preferably at noon.
Even better, "Baboon Style!"
Conan: Baboon Style?
Zell: That's right sir, meet me in the Jungle Canopy, were we will both present our red and swollen posteriors, whose ever backside is most inflamed will get to plant his dominant seed in the simian womb of the female baboon! Eight A.M. tomorrow!
I would like to take this opportunity to re-issue my modest proposal, stated previously in another thread, that every time someone says they're "calling someone out", they must be prepared to duel that person in the street with pistols. Preferably at noon.
Personally I would suggest plastic forks.
Shooting is easy, but if you're not prepared to look ridiculous while fighting for your argument, I don't think you're really committed to it.
While Buzzfeed isn't what I'd call a go-to fact-checking organization, I do think this link is worth checking out, just as a reminder that in a situation like this it's really important to think critically about the information you're seeing, especially in the social media.
OMG, how can people be so dumb? Was it Antifa in the 1992 LA riots? In Vancouver? Rioting is typically just opportunistic people getting carried away when the mood turns in a large gathering/protest.
You're not wrong.
But its obvious that there are organized groups among the protesters that are using this opportunity to loot and destroy everything.
You do realize there are literally thousands of videos on Twitter where even the protesters are wondering who the heck these people are, right? Videos of the protesters helping the cops arrest these people?
Online groups posting what they are going to do, right?
I guess it is hard to admit that left-wing anarchists could be a problem.
There are a lot more than dozens of people here at the Calgary protest today
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They really don't. What are you hoping to gain, exactly? I think we can call someone out on something they said, and if they're happy to walk it back or clarify their meaning, we believe them and move on. If you need an apology or to hold someone accountable for something they're no longer willing to defend or that they say they didn't mean, that's really your problem and your problem alone.
I only know how toxic and petty the path you're on is because I've been taken the same one plenty prior, and it's just a really sad way to participate in spaces like this.
That's not to say we can't all be catty bitches, because that's just fun sometimes. And apologies for this very off-topic post in a thread where the actual topic is important.
I think that's at the heart of the issue. You're willing to just move on. Trump says the dumbest things imaginable and we just move on. No one is held accountable for what they say or offer some explanation that is clearly not taking responsibility for what they said.
I think that's at the heart of the issue. You're willing to just move on. Trump says the dumbest things imaginable and we just move on. No one is held accountable for what they say or offer some explanation that is clearly not taking responsibility for what they said.
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That's a nice leap, but I think we can all agree it's ok to hold "random guy just participating on a message board" to a different standard than "President of the United States."
But you do you.
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Is there any actual proof suggesting that these people are somehow Antifa, other than people just saying they must be because it fits with their idea of Antifa?
Because I'm really not seeing it, and yeah I am kind of an expert. Sure, the antifa in the US isn't the same as it tends to be in Europe, but generally these days it's pretty easy spot the antifa if they're actually present as a group, because they tend to be way more organized than any other group present. In some cases better organized than the police.
Since the antifa-movement is heavily influenced by the long history of organized civil resistance and tends to be influenced by anarchist ideals of self-organization, they're not typically a force of chaos in situations like this, nor do they typically move alone. Unless that is their chosen tactic of course.
I'm not saying it's out of the question that in some places in the US the local antifa has decided that maximum chaos is somehow in their interest. Some of them are kind of nuts.
I am however saying that at least in Europe it would be pretty unlikely that a bunch of random civilians could catch an antifa-member that was out there deliberately causing chaos, because they'd have an exit strategy for that scenario and backup. At least that goes for the type of anarchist-antifa -types who would be the sort of troublemakers you're thinking of, at least in Europe.
It is also ridiculous to suggest that every riot in the US right now has an antifa presence. It's just not realistic at all. It's even less realistic to suggest that every rioting city in the US has that specific type of anarchist-antifa-presence. Even if they would be present in every city, they would act differently in different places, because they are self-organizing groups who choose their own goals and tactics.
Antifa is just not an organization like that. Some groups are like A and some are B and some are C. The unifying factor is not that they're anarchists, or violent, but that they're anti-fascists.
Also it's worth noting that while the sort of boogeyman violent anarchists the conservatives likes to talk about do exist, they're extremely rare even among anarchists, and anarchists are really rare.
Also, not all anarchists are antifa.
The media unfortunately loves a simple narrative with two opposing sides with differing goals.
It's why they're usually absolutely terrible at covering a protest of any significant size, because any protest like that is just bound to have all sorts of people with really different ideas.
I'm not saying Antifa is this highly organized, undergroup group that is controlling everything like the circle gang loves to say. I'm just saying there is ample evidence that they are to a certain degree organizing themselves to go out and destroy and loot.
Not sure what is hard to understand.
The reason it is an issue is because the media isn't reporting the proper story. They have turned it into the police state versus the rioters, when that isn't what it is at all. Most of the protesting has been peaceful. There is a small group of people on both sides, cops & rioters that are making it all worse.
But when we make 2 min videos of 'police brutality in America', or 2 min videos of 'how America is burning', everyone seems to think this is the norm and it just makes the problem worse.
Most groups that are peacefully protesting have caught on to this and are working to help the cops apprehend the people rioting and destroying businesses. Even the gangs in Chicago are working with the police to help.
People really need to stop reading what they see on Fox News or CNN. The media has been contributing to this problem for many years with their style of headline reporting.
At this point I think we can safely say that there has been a secondary group of 'people', notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests and riot, loot and wreck everything they can find.
On Twitter you can find tweet after tweet with videos showing even the protesters starting stop these idiots and hand them over to the police. The media as usual is slow to respond, and slow to catch on to what is happening. Some outlets refuse to even report what is happening. All we see is police brutality and black people rioting. Both are true, but both are not the whole truth, and as usual the media can't seem to get it right.
The perfect storm right now.
You do realise that Antifa has only one aim and purpose and that is to oppose extreme right wing groups, that is literally what their name is Antifa(scist), while there may well be people who are sympathetic to Antifa at the protests there is no chance the loosely organised Antifa would have anything 'officially' to do with this, it has bugger all to do with their mandate, now if the Proud Boys started counter marching the protests then you would see Antifa in a heart beat.
Understand you are being played right now, it is the old song 'external agitators and anarchists' its a way to try and get you to ignore the protests and so not support the sweeping change that needs to happen, if they can persuade you this is the work of outsiders then the protest isn't real and nothing has to change.
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 06-01-2020 at 11:16 AM.
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Rioting, looting, destroying homes, businesses and people's livelihood is never justified no matter who you were willing to 'fight.'
Must to be really hard to admit that left-wing anarchists can cause a problem as well. But as long as they meet right-wing fascists in the street and are willing to fight, then I like them. Give your head a shake.
A lot of reporters refuse to call mobs burning cars, looting stores, and throwing rocks at police a riot. Tribal allegiances colour everything we see and read in 2020.
Yes Cliff, and everyone except you of course is prone to tribalism. Everyone, except you.
Just shut up and do it without trying to get kudos online about doing the absolute minimum you can do.
True. But from what I'm seeing on Twitter lately, are many many people (including random Flames fans i follow), saying stuff like "Take note of those staying silent during this", especially referencing people in the public eye I'm sure. If you are a celebrity or even visible member of the media (thus needing an active Twitter account), I can see where the pressure would come in to feel like you have to post something like that. People are watching, and taking note if you don't.
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That's a nice leap, but I think we can all agree it's ok to hold "random guy just participating on a message board" to a different standard than "President of the United States."
But you do you.
You're simply incapable of seeing what you don't want to see... You do you.
You can't say everyone needs to hold each other accountable in one sentence then say it doesn't count because it's a random guy on a message board.
That's my point though. If we want to make a real change, like honestly, a real change in how we think, EVERYONE needs to participate. That included POTUS on down.
But you know, do the Pepsi thing. You find some articles, talk to some people and present yourself as a know it all. It's all you know afterall.
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Rioting, looting, destroying homes, businesses and people's livelihood is never justified no matter who you were willing to 'fight.'
Must to be really hard to admit that left-wing anarchists can cause a problem as well. But as long as they meet right-wing fascists in the street and are willing to fight, then I like them. Give your head a shake.
Is it just possible that rioting looting and burning things isn't organised at all? has no more to do with left wing anarchists than the Vancouver Riot with the Canucks, does it ever occur to you that when the average young man (mostly) gets together with several thousand other young men for any reason and the cops lose control you end up with rioting, looting and burning? there is nothing organised here, its just a bunch of kids realising they can do what ever the hell they want and smashing ####, Lord of the Flies stuff really
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You do realise that Antifa has only one aim and purpose and that is to oppose extreme right wing groups, that is literally what their name is Antifa(scist), while there may well be people who are sympathetic to Antifa at the protests there is no chance the loosely organised Antifa would have anything 'officially' to do with this, it has bugger all to do with their mandate, now if the Proud Boys started counter marching the protests then you would see Antifa in a heart beat.
Understand you are being played right now, it is the old song 'external agitators and anarchists' its a way to try and get you to ignore the protests and so not support the sweeping change that needs to happen, if they can persuade you this is the work of outsiders then the protest isn't real and nothing has to change.
It honestly doesn't matter to me what they stand for. My only point is that there are groups of people organizing themselves to go out and destroy businesses, homes and peoples livelihood, and they do not care about the BLM movement at all.
I just find it hilarious how hard it is to admit that this is happening when there is a massive amount of evidence from official sources (not Trump), from protesters on the ground, videos, etc.
The reason it is important is because most people are headline readers, the media would like you to believe that this is police brutality against protesters rioting and looting in the streets, but that is very much not what is happening.
Most of the protests have been peaceful. Most are emotional, most are angry. Most of the cops involved are doing a great job of handling the situations. But if we are going to make 2 min videos to show how 'America is burning', then I think we should at least be honest about who is making it burn. And like I said, it is not the BLM movement. Not the ACTUAL ones involved.
To me, watching the videos on Twitter that are taking on the ground are extremely moving. You won't get that in the media, which is why the media is part of the problem here.
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Mike Griffin, a longtime activist in Minneapolis, said the demonstrations in his city attracted people he had never seen before. They included well-dressed young white men in expensive boots carrying hammers and talking about torching buildings. “I know protests, I’ve been doing it for 20 years,” he said. “People not affiliated with the protests are creating havoc on the streets.”
I'm not saying Antifa is this highly organized, undergroup group that is controlling everything like the circle gang loves to say. I'm just saying there is ample evidence that they are to a certain degree organizing themselves to go out and destroy and loot.
You uh, gonna cite some?
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