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Old 02-14-2018, 10:04 PM   #501
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At the same time, when you make the decision to own a gun and then to use a gun, you voluntarily undertake a great responsibility to use it safely with great regard for the people around you (I think). It is one of the most dangerous tools a person can wield. You must take extra steps that a gun-free person does not need to take in those same chaotic and confusing situation.
/cough I could argue that a vehicle is a more dangerous tool then a gun, hell they kill more people in this country.

And I would think all that would go out the window when Gerald encountered the situation that he did.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:17 PM   #502
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/cough I could argue that a vehicle is a more dangerous tool then a gun, hell they kill more people in this country.

And I would think all that would go out the window when Gerald encountered the situation that he did.
To your first point: the number hours of use of vehicles in Canada exceeds the number of hours of use of firearms by orders of magnitude. The average Canadian uses a car for something like two hours a day every day. How do you think this compares to average gun use.

That said, the same idea indeed applies to vehicles. Drivers are expected to take all sorts of precautions that pedestrians are not expected to take. A very rigorous and strictly enforced regulatory regime applies to drivers (requiring licensing, insurance, etc). So not sure what your point is.

To your second point, I strongly disagree. So, quite clearly, does the law. A stressful situation does not entitle someone to abandon reason. Even if I am being attacked, I can only respond with force that is reasonable in the circumstances.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:22 PM   #503
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Wouldn't pointing a gun at somene's head in this situation have to be lawful? That's kind of what a reasonable, normal person would do in a self defense situation. It comes down to believing or not the malfunction of the gun. Do you believe he pulled the trigger several times and took the clip out or not?
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:32 PM   #504
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Wouldn't pointing a gun at somene's head in this situation have to be lawful? That's kind of what a reasonable, normal person would do in a self defense situation. It comes down to believing or not the malfunction of the gun. Do you believe he pulled the trigger several times and took the clip out or not?
Again, it’s a moot question because Mr. Stanley never testified that he points the gun at Mr. Boushie’s head in order to protect himself or someone else. It is Mr. Stanley’s evidence that he isn’t paying attention to where his gun is pointed when it goes off.

But hypothetically, if that was his evidence, I think it would have been a difficult argument. There was little reason for him to believe that anyone’s life was in serious jeopardy at the time of the fatal gunshot. The vehicle isn’t moving. There are no signs that anyone is trapped under the vehicle. Mr. Stanley is very close to it. The only basis for a belief that someone is seriously in danger at this point is that apparently Mr. Stanley’s wife is no longer on the lawnmower that she previously was. To me, that is very thin.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:40 PM   #505
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To your first point: the number hours of use of vehicles in Canada exceeds the number of hours of use of firearms by orders of magnitude. The average Canadian uses a car for something like two hours a day every day. How do you think this compares to average gun use.

That said, the same idea indeed applies to vehicles. Drivers are expected to take all sorts of precautions that pedestrians are not expected to take. A very rigorous and strictly enforced regulatory regime applies to drivers (requiring licensing, insurance, etc). So not sure what your point is.

To your second point, I strongly disagree. So, quite clearly, does the law. A stressful situation does not entitle someone to abandon reason. Even if I am being attacked, I can only respond with force that is reasonable in the circumstances.

my point was that a vehicle is a more dangerous tool then a gun.

You stated that a gun is one of the most dangerous tools a person can wield and honestly is harmless unless it is loaded

As for the last part, who knows how any of us will respond. Unless you have police/military training I would think theres a 1000 diff ways a person will respond.

For the record I thought he was going to get manslaughter, I was surprised he did not
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:37 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
Wouldn't pointing a gun at somene's head in this situation have to be lawful? That's kind of what a reasonable, normal person would do in a self defense situation. It comes down to believing or not the malfunction of the gun. Do you believe he pulled the trigger several times and took the clip out or not?
If you read the excerpts from the judges jury instruction the question around the manslaughter charge is carelessness as compared to a typical person in that situation.


Quote:
If you have a reasonable doubt that Mr. Stanley’s use of the firearm showed a marked departure from the standard of care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in the same circumstances or that Mr. Stanley took reasonable precautions to live up to that standard of care this element has not been proven.
[...]

The elements of careless use and lawful excuse are somewhat intertwined. Mr. Stanley says that he thought that there were only two bullets in the magazine. He says that he thought that he had fired all rounds because he had pulled the trigger multiple times. He said that he thought the gun could not fire with the magazine out. He says that he did not pull the trigger around the time that he approached the grey Escape.

On the other hand, the gun did discharge and the bullet from the discharge hit Mr. Boushie. Should Mr. Stanley have taken more care to ensure the gun was not pointed at or in the direction of Mr. Boushie? Guns are dangerous. You can see the care with which everyone treated the handgun in court even though it was always thought to be empty.
Self-Defense has nothing to do with it as Stanley claimed he never intended to point the gun at Bouchie.

Last edited by GGG; 02-15-2018 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:59 AM   #507
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Self-Defense has nothing to do with it as Stanley claimed he never intended to point the gun at Bouchie.
I totally get that. But what I'm thinking is that the context of the situation can not be ignored. Whether he claimed it or not, he was in a stressful self defense situation. He wasn't target shooting with buddies. If he was target shooting with buddies he'd be guilty. The situation obviously was taken into consideration by the jurors.

This didn't happen in a vacuum. Because he didn't testify to self defense doesn't mean he wasn't in fact in that sort of a situation when the incident happened. He didn't intend to point the gun at someone in self defense but maybe that's what the jury believed happened. Or at least that was a part of the over all truth that can't be ignored.

In any case I believe reasonable people would assume after pulling the trigger a number of times any gun would be clear of live rounds. That's just totally normal. No argument to be had there. It just comes down to what you believe actually happened.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:04 AM   #508
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That is right up there among the most stupid things I have ever seen a human do.
And he gets to own a gun. Yay!
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:09 AM   #509
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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:20 AM   #510
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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
So her grandpa took her over to a guy who treats his wife and his grand daughter like that. Took them there A LOT? Something doesnt seem right. Lies or missing info.

However even if he was racist, he didn't go shooting up a reserve. The evidence still agrees with his story. The only piece of evidence that said otherwise, was the girl who testified that she saw Gerald walk around to the passenger side, and shoot him in the head twice, as he was sleeping in the passenger seat. Of course that goes against the autopsy, blood stains, other witnesses, etc.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:27 AM   #511
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So her grandpa took her over to a guy who treats his wife and his grand daughter like that. Took them there A LOT? Something doesnt seem right. Lies or missing info.

However even if he was racist, he didn't go shooting up a reserve. The evidence still agrees with his story. The only piece of evidence that said otherwise, was the girl who testified that she saw Gerald walk around to the passenger side, and shoot him in the head twice, as he was sleeping in the passenger seat. Of course that goes against the autopsy, blood stains, other witnesses, etc.
Well, the evidence (absent Mr. Stanley’s own exculpatory account) was also consistent with the Crown’s theory on both the murder charge and the manslaughter charge. Mr. Stanley was acquitted because, apparently, his exculpatory account raised a reasonable doubt in the jury’s minds. That doesn’t, of course, prove that he is innocent (in the same way that DNA evidence might actually exclude someone from possibly having committed a particular offence).
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:28 AM   #512
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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
Again, why are you guys posting random people's facebook posts as if they are some sort of truth?

And this lady claims she drove past their driveway the day of the shooting and had guns pointed at them until he saw her grandpa?
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:29 AM   #513
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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
I’m not a master Googler but it seems to be pretty hard to find an “Arianna Chamakese” anywhere except in relation to this theoretical Facebook post.

Looks fake.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:31 AM   #514
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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
Seems like if this was true it would have been brought up in trial of the witnesses were believable.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:32 AM   #515
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to me this seems like kinda of a truth. anyways, if mr. stanely went over to visit grandma and grandpa on a regular basis would he not have recognized their vehicle as it pulled up to his house?

just wondering.

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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:51 AM   #516
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to me this seems like kinda of a truth. anyways, if mr. stanely went over to visit grandma and grandpa on a regular basis would he not have recognized their vehicle as it pulled up to his house?

just wondering.
Uh huh, there's so much stuff coming out on both sides of the debate that its insane.

I always have trouble with the whole truth comes out on the interwebs thing.

At the end of the day, the stuff in that facebook post is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the shooting.

And why instead of posting on the old facebook wasn't this person running to the prosecutor to testify.

Or maybe he did, and the prosecutor said, I can't afford another terrible witness on top of the witnesses I have.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:04 AM   #517
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Well, the evidence (absent Mr. Stanley’s own exculpatory account) was also consistent with the Crown’s theory on both the murder charge and the manslaughter charge. Mr. Stanley was acquitted because, apparently, his exculpatory account raised a reasonable doubt in the jury’s minds. That doesn’t, of course, prove that he is innocent (in the same way that DNA evidence might actually exclude someone from possibly having committed a particular offence).
What evidence was that?
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:36 AM   #518
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What evidence was that?
On manslaughter that the gun was pointed at the victims head at the time it went off.

On murder two, that it is exceedingly rare that a gun goes off without the trigger being pulled by the perpetrator. Its only Stanley's testimony that has him claiming that followed a duty of care associated with carrying a firearm.

The physical evidence points to murder 2. Its why Stanley testified.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:52 AM   #519
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What evidence was that?
That Mr. Boushie was killed by a close range gun shot fired by Mr. Stanley?
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:28 PM   #520
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Eventually everyone's truth comes out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
That's your second drive by with facts from facebook.
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