The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[browna]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Not completely OT, but from Simmon's article about Canada's loss to Germany.

But on the way to defeat and the greatest victory in the not-memorable history of German hockey, Desjardins had much to answer for. He didn’t change lines. He didn’t change styles. He didn’t adjust to the Germans’ trapping ways. He didn’t shorten his bench when he needed to. He continued to use ineffective players.
And in a four-on-four situation late in the game, down a goal, the Canadian coach put fourth-liners Eric O’Dell and Maxim Lapierre on the ice.

Sounds all too familiar:
http://nationalpost.com/sports/olymp...oss-to-germany

I’ll go OT here to point out that ODell had around a crazy 70% faceoff win percentage for the entire tournament, which is why he was on there.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The Flames started the season (the first 14 games) going 7 for 49 (14.9%). They then had an 9 game stretch where they went 11 for 32 (34.4%). That was followed up by a 34 game stretch where they went 14 for 97 (14.4%).

The team finally went to Gio and Hamilton on the point (instead of the 1D, 4F umbrella) in the last 6 games, and have gone (a completely unsustainable) 9 for 21 (42.9%).

So, no, they were not "very proficient for roughly 1/3 of the season". Prior to the recent change of personnel and tactics, they were extremely hot for 9 games, and terrible for 48.

It's a pretty sad testament on the make up of a team if they're relying on a 31 year old guy playing mostly 4th line minutes who had 2 pp points in his last 14 games to drive the power play.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Not completely OT, but from Simmon's article about Canada's loss to Germany.

But on the way to defeat and the greatest victory in the not-memorable history of German hockey, Desjardins had much to answer for. He didn’t change lines. He didn’t change styles. He didn’t adjust to the Germans’ trapping ways. He didn’t shorten his bench when he needed to. He continued to use ineffective players.
And in a four-on-four situation late in the game, down a goal, the Canadian coach put fourth-liners Eric O’Dell and Maxim Lapierre on the ice.

Sounds all too familiar:
http://nationalpost.com/sports/olymp...oss-to-germany

A Steve Simmonds article being used to support an argument? Well now I've seen everything.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Major Major

A Steve Simmonds article being used to support an argument? Well now I've seen everything.

Generally Simmons articles are great for crumpling up and throwing in with your kindling.

[Karl]

Steve Simmons sucks.

[timbit]

There are 4 teams that will not make the playoffs in the WC.(Ari Van Edm Chi )
3 teams are In for sure. (Vegas Wpg Nash)
1 team on the cusp. ( Col)

Flames are one of SEVEN TEAMS that are within FOUR POINTS of each other that are competing for 5 spots.

Minn SJ St. Louis ANA DAL LA

It’s called parity.

Gulutzan is in good company in competing for a playoff spot in an unreal race and doing fine.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The Flames started the season (the first 14 games) going 7 for 49 (14.9%). They then had an 9 game stretch where they went 11 for 32 (34.4%). That was followed up by a 34 game stretch where they went 14 for 97 (14.4%).

The team finally went to Gio and Hamilton on the point (instead of the 1D, 4F umbrella) in the last 6 games, and have gone (a completely unsustainable) 9 for 21 (42.9%).

So, no, they were not "very proficient for roughly 1/3 of the season". Prior to the recent change of personnel and tactics, they were extremely hot for 9 games, and terrible for 48.

Clearly you’ve done more research than I have, nice work. However, powerplays run hot and cold all the time and fact is, when your sitting close to the top 10 amongst the league for the first 1/3 of the season, that’s pretty darn proficient relatively speaking. Also, having a powerplay finishing top 10 last year in an 82 game season along with a strong performance in the playoffs I think is a pretty good sample size.

So no matter what everyone thinks or how badly everyone wants certain guys fired, Treliving will be evaluating the entire body of work, not just a bad stretch or 2. Man, I can’t even imagine how badly this place would burn to the ground if we were actually the 31st ranked team.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

It's a pretty sad testament on the make up of a team if they're relying on a 31 year old guy playing mostly 4th line minutes who had 2 pp points in his last 14 games to drive the power play.

It was really just mental in my opinion. I don’t even remember Versteeg being that great this season, but after he went down, a bad stretch wound up snowballing. Then Dougie came into the fray and they started to find success again and now today, even with Dougie in the locker room, the PP managed to still look good against the 3rd best PK in the league and even managed to score a goal. Sometimes confidence can be everything in this league.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by timbit

There are 4 teams that will not make the playoffs in the WC.(Ari Van Edm Chi )
3 teams are In for sure. (Vegas Wpg Nash)
1 team on the cusp. ( Col)

Flames are one of SEVEN TEAMS that are within FOUR POINTS of each other that are competing for 5 spots.

Minn SJ St. Louis ANA DAL LA

It’s called parity.

Gulutzan is in good company in competing for a playoff spot in an unreal race and doing fine.

Well said. This is also what I think. We’ve got clear contenders and then the middle tier which is where we sit. Nothing wrong with that. We’re a young team with a lot of young players who aren’t even in their primes yet.

Not sure why we all of a sudden became contenders when we missed the playoffs in 2016 and were swept in 2017 by a team who we’re neck and neck with now. We’re growing and headed the right direction.

You have to learn how to crawl before you walk and you have to learn how to walk before you run. I mean how long has it been since we started rebuilding, we basically just finished that process not too long ago.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well said. This is also what I think. We’ve got clear contenders and then the middle tier which is where we sit. Nothing wrong with that. We’re a young team with a lot of young players who aren’t even in their primes yet.

Not sure why we all of a sudden became contenders when we missed the playoffs in 2016 and were swept in 2017 by a team who we’re neck and neck with now. We’re growing and headed the right direction.

You have to learn how to crawl before you walk and you have to learn how to walk before you run. I mean how long has it been since we started rebuilding, we basically just finished that process not too long ago.

5 years as of next month.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by gargamel

5 years as of next month.

Yes exactly, it’s a process. Rebuild for a few years and slowly work your way to become a contender. All of our competition like the Ducks, Kings, Sharks, Minnesota, St Louis and etc are currently in their windows to win and their top players will be exiting their primes soon.

Our young players haven’t even entered their primes yet. Look at our 3rd line center for instance, a rookie who’s only played 50 or so NHL games. Tkachuk only in his 2nd year. Soon our players will enter their prime and we will be a tougher team to beat that will likely contend for years to come.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by gargamel

5 years as of next month.

The flames never actually started a proper rebuild which is why things are stalling out now.

Look at what the rangers have done today and ask when the flames did something similar?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by timbit

There are 4 teams that will not make the playoffs in the WC.(Ari Van Edm Chi )
3 teams are In for sure. (Vegas Wpg Nash)
1 team on the cusp. ( Col)

Flames are one of SEVEN TEAMS that are within FOUR POINTS of each other that are competing for 5 spots.

Minn SJ St. Louis ANA DAL LA

It’s called parity.

Gulutzan is in good company in competing for a playoff spot in an unreal race and doing fine.

My major issue with this attitude is that you're taking a Macro approach.

You are judging an individual (Gulutzan) based on the results of the group about where you expected the team to be.

From a 'Micro' perspective however there are lots of indications where GG has faltered and as such perhaps this team could, and should, be doing better.

You're saying that the team is where the team is, which is where you feel the team should be, so no harm, no foul.

However, when watching the games and the actual moves made by the coach he regularly screws up routine coaching moves and hes very slow to adapt among other things.

You're right, the Flames are in a dogfight for a playoff spot, but astute moves here and there acquire or forfeit points which could put their heads above the pack or keep them in the thick of it.

So the coaching doesnt matter? Hes not helping nor hindering?

I wish someone had told Vegas that the coaching doesnt matter.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The flames never actually started a proper rebuild which is why things are stalling out now.

Look at what the rangers have done today and ask when the flames did something similar?

Hold on,

So the Flames trading Iginla, Bouwmeester for 1st round picks and then using all those picks to draft prospects was not starting a proper rebuild?

The deadline of 2013 our horrible GM made 2 bad trades for top players that resulted in the team netting some prospects and picks. Over the next 3 trade deadlines the Flames proceeded to trade expiring players for picks prospects.

2013 - Iggy, Bouw, Comeau out for 2 1st, 5th, 4 garbage prospects.
2014- Stempniak for a 3rd, Berra for a 2nd
2015- Glencross for a 2nd and 3td
2016- Hudler for a 2nd and 4th, Russell for a 2nd, Pollack, Jokipakka, Granlund for Shinkaruk

Last year getting Stone and Lazar was the first time the Flames bought since the rebuild began. They made the playoffs. This team sold when they made
The playoffs in 15

[IamNotKenKing]

I find it interesting that as the season has gotten nearer the end, he seems* to have started playing the top lines more, and 4th line less. This suggests to me the goal was to not overplay the top players early, so they have more in the tank for the end push and playoffs.

Now, of course if we don’t make it, then that was all for naught.

That does not explain some of the other moves that are questionable, such as the PP questions, and putting the 4th line out after goals, esp. with the 3rd pairing. That being said, the 4th line & 3rd pairing combo. seems to be put out less lately, too.

*This is simply based upon viewing, and not any viewing of stats. I would guess that lines are still rolled in the late stages of the last three games, due to being blown out (Vegas), and winning comfortably (Ariz. and Col.).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Hold on,

So the Flames trading Iginla, Bouwmeester for 1st round picks and then using all those picks to draft prospects was not starting a proper rebuild?

The deadline of 2013 our horrible GM made 2 bad trades for top players that resulted in the team netting some prospects and picks. Over the next 3 trade deadlines the Flames proceeded to trade expiring players for picks prospects.

2013 - Iggy, Bouw, Comeau out for 2 1st, 5th, 4 garbage prospects.
2014- Stempniak for a 3rd, Berra for a 2nd
2015- Glencross for a 2nd and 3td
2016- Hudler for a 2nd and 4th, Russell for a 2nd, Pollack, Jokipakka, Granlund for Shinkaruk

Last year getting Stone and Lazar was the first time the Flames bought since the rebuild began. They made the playoffs. This team sold when they made
The playoffs in 15

That's not a rebuild and also you're just flat wrong.

They bought stone, Smith, Elliott, hamonic, Hamilton with picks. They bought bollig for a 3rd the same year they moved Berra for a 2nd. They bought corban knight, tj galiardi, Kris Russell and Joe colborne with picks.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That's not a rebuild and also you're just flat wrong.

They bought stone, Smith, Elliott, hamonic, Hamilton with picks. They bought bollig for a 3rd the same year they moved Berra for a 2nd. They bought corban knight, tj galiardi, Kris Russell and Joe colborne with picks.

You think a rebuild is straight up drafting and developing all your own players?

What level of Provence would you have had for that?

5 of the Flames top 6 forwards were drafted by the team and at least 2-3 of the bottom 6 as well

Half of the blueline were drafted (Gio’s case developed) by the org.

Our backup goalies are homegrown.

This team trades a 5th for Russell at the start of the rebuild and flips him for multiple assets while still rebuilding.

I am a little confused. Please give an example of a proper rebuild.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Locke

My major issue with this attitude is that you're taking a Macro approach.

I’d prefer to think that it is more of an overall evaluation , based on expectations, which are directly correlated to roster strength and conference competition,


You are judging an individual (Gulutzan) based on the results of the group about where you expected the team to be.

Seriously, how else would one evaluate coaching performance? Treleving is on record as saying he expected the team to be in the 100 point range this season.
His expectations are more relevant and important than what anyone of us are expecting. The Flames are in position to meet those expectations.


From a 'Micro' perspective however there are lots of indications where GG has faltered and as such perhaps this team could, and should, be doing better.

Like anyone else, coaches and players are going to make mistakes. I am sure Gulutzan regrets some moves he has made. However, he seems to to be a no win situation with a portion of posters on the board.

General example....the team wins and it was the players ...the team loses and it was Gulutzan. The strategy and tactical subtleties are frequently indiscernible and not distinguishable to us.

Individual player mental preparation falls for the most part on the individual player as does the in game “staying in the moment”.

The Knute Rockne coaching approach is a very short lived motivational tool in today’s game. The strategy, tactical approach and situational ice time allocation are what differentiates the good coaches. The coach garners respect and elevates his leadership role from the players based on his ability to excel in these areas. The one on one relationship building is also vital. Before players care how much you know, they want to know how much you care.

Sometimes the other team plays better. That seems to be a foreign concept to some.
There needs to be a little more of a rational approach. Both parts, coaches and players are responsible and accountable to each other, as well as management and ownership.


You're saying that the team is where the team is, which is where you feel the team should be, so no harm, no foul.

However, when watching the games and the actual moves made by the coach he regularly screws up routine coaching moves and hes very slow to adapt among other things.

This is a frequent narrative that I do not believe holds up.
If fans sincerely believe that they are able to regularly identify what/ when a lifetime professional coach “regularly screws up routine coaching moves and he’s very slow...”..either they or Gulutzan are in the wrong profession.
Again, to reiterate, of course Gulutzan makes mistakes but let’s be realistic.


You're right, the Flames are in a dogfight for a playoff spot, but astute moves here and there acquire or forfeit points which could put their heads above the pack or keep them in the thick of it.

See above. I believe he is doing a good job of leading a good hockey team, not a great team.

So the coaching doesnt matter? Hes not helping nor hindering?
He is helping , IMO.
I have laid out what I believe are the important qualities of a good coach.

I wish someone had told Vegas that the coaching doesnt matter.

You are talking about an historical performance by an expansion franchise.
The same coach who a very short time ago was irresponsibly replaced by a inexperienced manager and ownership group with a team that was not mature enough to win at that point.

[Strange Brew]

In the last couple of days, Montreal, NYR and Vegas all absorbed some dead salary in order to acquire assets for the future. Vegas even got some immediate help.

Both Feaster and Treliving have talked about using cap space as an asset, but unless I am forgetting something, Flames have never done it. I know it takes two to tango yadda, yadda but that is over a long period of time. This team would almost certainly look better with a couple of extra prospects in the cupboard instead of spending that cap space on guys like Mason Raymond.

I can't help but think this team's extended lack of success consistently drives a mindset of trying to take shortcuts to get into the playoffs. Now we have a pretty good young team but limited in terms of future draft picks and forward prospects.

[Azhouse]

Thought I'd slide this one back up here...