Brexit - The continuing mission to explore strange new forms of silliness

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

It's people like you spouting false facts and painting trade deals as "easy" that got the UK into this mess in the first place. Every expert who actually knows anything about economics and trade deals has repeatedly said the UK leaving the EU will be bad, so why should anyone believe you?

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

[marsplasticeraser]

What about the 16.1 million people that voted to stay? By your logic they can’t be wrong because there are so many of them.

Your logic is flawed. Terrible argument that because roughly half the population voted for something is must be right.

Further, what was proposed as Brexit is fundamentally different from the deal on the table right now. what people voted on in 2016 is not very relevant to the decision to be made right now.

Finally, I would note that the current deal on the table is largely what those against brexit expected. The UK had very little leverage, and a bad deal was by far the most likely outcome. Which is exactly what happened. Ironically, theee same people who predicted this bad deal also note that no deal brexit would inflict significant economic harm on the UK economy and population. This would eventually lead to a recovery with a heavily devalued pound, which makes UK workers poorer but with more reasonable labour costs, however still unable to compete with low cost labour. So the UK is still screwed.

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

That is a tremendously silly argument (that could just as easily be applied in reverse).

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

Not a single Leave campaigner suggested that the UK should or could leave on a 'no deal' Brexit, the utter steaming pile of rubbish they shoveled out to the voting public prior to the vote was that the EU would give the UK a wonderful deal that it would give the UK all the benefits of membership with the added advantage of getting rid of all the filthy foreigners even the brown and black ones that had nothing to do with EU membership.

The voters were asked to vote yes or no to a question that didn't have a yes or no answer, so without doubt the UK had no idea what they were voting for, they weren't wrong as they actually didn't vote for what's now happening.

From the official Vote Leaves Campaign press release prior to the vote


One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

Yes, they did make the wrong decision. It was a decision based upon outright proven lies and fantasy.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

Yes, same as I can say that the 62 million people that voted for Donald Trump were all idiots. The Brexit voters do get some leeway though as they made their choice based on outright lies, whereas the Americans should have known exactly what they were getting into

[Locke]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Oh and you know better than the 15 million people that voted for brexit that brexit is a bad choice. All 15 million people made the wrong decision right?

I think its fairly clear at this point that the British people were largely sold a bill of goods that turned into a pack of lies after the initial referendum.

The initial separatist national fervor evaporated after the realization of the actual terms became clear.

[FireGilbert]

Quick anecdote: My wife recently befriended a co-worker who recently moved here from the UK. One day the topic of Brexit came up and we learned that she had voted Yes but was now regretting that decision after seeing the fallout. We asked why she voted Yes and the response was "I didn't understand what it meant so asked my parents what I should vote for."

That is why you don't leave complex political decision in the hand of a simplistic Yes/No plebiscite. Britain is such a mess right now and it is 100% self inflicted. I will be enjoying the popcorn.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Quick anecdote: My wife recently befriended a co-worker who recently moved here from the UK. One day the topic of Brexit came up and we learned that she had voted Yes but was now regretting that decision after seeing the fallout. We asked why she voted Yes and the response was "I didn't understand what it meant so asked my parents what I should vote for."

That is why you don't leave complex political decision in the hand of a simplistic Yes/No plebiscite. Britain is such a mess right now and it is 100% self inflicted. I will be enjoying the popcorn.

Part of it too was the No side did such a horrible job in the campaign. They were overconfident and didn't inform the public enough of the consequences.

The Yes side did a great job, particularly playing on fears and playing loose with the facts. Not unlike Trump.

[Bagor]

"Playing loose with the facts."

That a fancy way of saying lied through their teeth?

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Bagor

"Playing loose with the facts."

That a fancy way of saying lied through their teeth?

Absolutely.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Quick anecdote: My wife recently befriended a co-worker who recently moved here from the UK. One day the topic of Brexit came up and we learned that she had voted Yes but was now regretting that decision after seeing the fallout. We asked why she voted Yes and the response was "I didn't understand what it meant so asked my parents what I should vote for."

That is why you don't leave complex political decision in the hand of a simplistic Yes/No plebiscite. Britain is such a mess right now and it is 100% self inflicted. I will be enjoying the popcorn.

Na, its why you do not let kids vote, that seems to be an ongoing issue. If you need too check with a parent, you're too young to vote.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Na, its why you do not let kids vote, that seems to be an ongoing issue. If you need too check with a parent, you're too young to vote.

Is the implication here that the uneducated voting is limited to the younger generation? That is complete crap. The reason that the UK has ended up with Brexit and the US with Trump is older, likely bigoted, voters who long for the times of the past when it was better without all these damn immigrants.

I am not saying that the younger generation is much better educated, but to completely discount their voice is dangerous.

Decisions this complex should never be placed in the hands of the public at large. The whole point of elected officials is to deal with these sorts of things.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Na, its why you do not let kids vote, that seems to be an ongoing issue. If you need too check with a parent, you're too young to vote.

So you're in favour of Brexit?

Given that 75% of those 24 and under voted against Brexit, that's the only logical explanation.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-eu-referendum

If anything, the data shows that it's the older people that didn't understand the issue.

[FlameOn]

Parliament rejects the vote May's deal for a third time, they are now voting on whether to request a delay for Brexit in general.

Hopefully this turns into a cancellation of the whole disaster or a second referendum.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Parliament rejects the vote May's deal for a third time, they are now voting on whether to request a delay for Brexit in general.

Hopefully this turns into a cancellation of the whole disaster or a second referendum.

Or not lol. What a hilarious mess.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Or not lol. What a hilarious mess.

More details on this
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rce=reddit.com

Vote happening for a second referendum

MPs will vote today on whether to give the public a fresh referendum on Brexit after John Bercow selected an amendment that could lead to a Final Say vote.

It will be the first time the Commons has held a formal vote on the issue of another referendum and will take place during another day of high drama in Westminster.

The motion, tabled by The Independent Group's Sarah Wollaston, will be voted on tonight during a debate on whether to seek a delay to Brexit.

It orders Theresa May to seek to delay Brexit “for the purposes of legislating for and conducting a public vote in which the people of the United Kingdom may give their consent" for either leaving the EU on the terms of a deal agreed by Parliament or remaining in the bloc.

The amendment is backed by MPs from Labour, the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Liberal Democrats and The Independent Group.

MPs bid to control Brexit agenda with votes on all options
However, it is unlikely to pass unless it is supported by the Labour leadership and around 25 Conservative rebels. Labour's position on another referendum has been unclear in recent days, with shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer saying he was "proud" to support one while shadow education secretary Angela Rayner said it would be "disastrous".

Other pro-referendum MPs had wanted to hold off on tabling a motion calling for a fresh public vote until it was more likely to be approved by MPs.

[Parallex]

A question for folk more attuned to UK happenings then I...

At what point do May and Co. decide that the current composition of the UK parliament can't produce an outcome and call for a new election in hopes that the numbers change to one that can?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Parallex

A question for folk more attuned to UK happenings then I...

At what point do May and Co. decide that the current composition of the UK parliament can't produce an outcome and call for a new election in hopes that the numbers change to one that can?

Wasn't that what they tried to do with the last election, where May went from a majority govt to a minority?

[Wormius]

For the relatively uninitiated, what do the no-voters in the Parliament who voted down the previous Brexit deals want exactly?


It seems like they are otherwise unappeasable, and there is a lot of time and effort being put in to coming up with a solution that doesn't seem to get any traction within Parliament. I feel like if I was Theresa May at this moment, I would say "screw this, I am out, you figure out what you want".