Blow it up!

[ben voyonsdonc]

What I said is that you can't make a trade straight up of Tkachuk, Monahan, and/or Gaudreau for draft picks. Few teams in the flat cap era can take one or more of those contracts on without balancing it.

As such, they will return a mix of prospects (never said they were poor prospects), 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, and a contract to balance out the cap hit a little.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

What I said is that you can't make a trade straight up of Tkachuk, Monahan, and/or Gaudreau for draft picks. Few teams in the flat cap era can take one or more of those contracts on without balancing it.

As such, they will return a mix of prospects (never said they were poor prospects), 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, and a contract to balance out the cap hit a little.

If they are taking contracts back Tkachuk and Gaudreau should return a first. What is a trade that you think would be fair?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So did Calgary: Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau

Originally Posted by troutman

Try again. Hoard picks.

Each and every single one of them should be traded this off season to do just that, and bring blue chip prospects in as well.

A Philadelphia style retool could finally push this team beyond just being a playoff bubble team.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If they are taking contracts back Tkachuk and Gaudreau should return a first. What is a trade that you think would be fair?

It depends on the contracts that we are receiving. If they are junk players with bad contracts, we could receive a first+. If they are good players with big contracts, we would be looking at prospects + 2nd and 3rd round picks.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

What I said is that you can't make a trade straight up of Tkachuk, Monahan, and/or Gaudreau for draft picks. Few teams in the flat cap era can take one or more of those contracts on without balancing it.

As such, they will return a mix of prospects (never said they were poor prospects), 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, and a contract to balance out the cap hit a little.

Even the extended description still sounds terrible. It’s easy to send salary, that won’t be a problem. The problem that always ensues in negotiations is giving up quality prospects and quality picks. If the Flames aren’t either one of those (if not both), then why are we doing the team we’re trading with a favor?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

What I said is that you can't make a trade straight up of Tkachuk, Monahan, and/or Gaudreau for draft picks. Few teams in the flat cap era can take one or more of those contracts on without balancing it.

As such, they will return a mix of prospects (never said they were poor prospects), 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, and a contract to balance out the cap hit a little.

One or two (or each) of those players should be at least worst 1st round picks. I think we are really underselling the value of these players. If a team feels these players will be very positive contributors for them - and they should be with the right supporting cast - they will pay a premium for them. These are first and forth rounders that have recent statlines that are of 1st line quality. That's not cheap even if they aren't preforming well currently due to situation.

Teams that will be wanting them aren't at the bottom of the league, getting early first round picks. These will be teams that want to strong contenders in the playoffs. So would be later picks in the rounds. Iginla and Bouwmeester was able to fetch 1st round picks despite their age and productions at that point. These guys are much younger.

[bubbsy]

I feel like this draft and next will be an even larger crapshoot than normal. In that sense, I am fine with hoarding multiple 2nd/3rd round picks (outside of obviously gunning for 1st rounders) will be good, as there are likely too be plenty of variability on where good players will eventually get drafted. Of course there's also just as high a probability drop busts, but again having more "bullets in the chamber" will be beneficial.

Having lots of picks, and having a lot of cap space is a strong methodology for creating a strong rebuild foundation.

This team is not good. They have no long term core pieces outside of a 30year old goalie, and some young d who are still figuring their place out in this league.

I just don't see how they re-tool out of this.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That time was a year ago.

The returns for Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Gio, even Tkachuk (if they go that way) will be substantially lower today. This team is piss-poor at asset management. It’s part of the short-term approach baked into the franchise DNA.

You hope for a bounce back season from all of them, that hasn't happened.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I feel like this draft and next will be an even larger crapshoot than normal. In that sense, I am fine with hoarding multiple 2nd/3rd round picks (outside of obviously gunning for 1st rounders) will be good, as there are likely too be plenty of variability on where good players will eventually get drafted. Of course there's also just as high a probability drop busts, but again having more "bullets in the chamber" will be beneficial.

Having lots of picks, and having a lot of cap space is a strong methodology for creating a strong rebuild foundation.

This team is not good. They have no long term core pieces outside of a 30year old goalie, and some young d who are still figuring their place out in this league.

I just don't see how they re-tool out of this.

I feel this can be a retool more so than a rebuild if they can make good free agent pickups to shore up their scoring with the free cap space they would get. But they have to be responsible not just in the players they get, but how much they spend overall since they need to maintain buffer for future contracts on the players they pickup.

[Vinny01]

The team brought in Sutter to win they are on their last thread here. Now the team needs to make massive core changes but they appear destined to rebuild right around the time they move to a new building.

In my opinion this team goes for it for at least the next 2 years after this one with Sutter. I think Gaudreau, Monahan and more are going to be dealt with more Sutter like players being brought in.

[Classic_Sniper]

aaaaand that’s officially curtains for me, I’m on the blow it up bandwagon now. If you can’t beat the rebuilding Ottawa Senators in 2 must win games, then you should be the team rebuilding.

I don’t want to see anyone on this core kept, blow it all up and start from scratch with the right vision, the right plan and the right people.

[calgARI]

Absolutely blow it up. This core has failed. The General Manager has done a terrible job and should be fired.

[Mathgod]

With this upcoming draft being what it is, it's a very risky time to do a blowup & rebuild now.

Sutter's a great coach, but this roster isn't built to play his style of hockey.

Yikes. I don't know what the answer is now. Maybe a retool. Move guys out who can't win puck battles, and get guys who can.
,

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

With this upcoming draft being what it is, it's a very risky time to do a blowup & rebuild now.

Sutter's a great coach, but this roster isn't built to play his style of hockey.

Yikes. I don't know what the answer is now. Maybe a retool. Move guys out who can't win puck battles, and get guys who can.
,

What are we risking at this point? The potential of losing out on more mediocre seasons from a cap team? We're bad, the risk is being a different kind of bad. Not much of a deterrent.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

With this upcoming draft being what it is, it's a very risky time to do a blowup & rebuild now.

Treliving backed himself into this corner by not making the appropriate moves earlier when it was clear this core wasn't getting it done. Now he (or his successor) is looking at severely diminished returns and limited options for a tear-down. Risky or not, there's obviously no other choice so just rip the damn band aid off already and move on.

[Macho0978]

Watching this team play makes we miss Iginla and Kipper. We failed those 2 but in their prime we knew we could count on them almost every night. It’s sad when we want to run all our best players out of town when they are all in their 20s

IMO first 2 guys to go need to be Johnny and Gio. I’d reevaluate after that what we get in return

If monahan needs surgery shut him done now so we can maybe move him next year

This draft might be questionable but we need to secure a top 8 or better pick

[Bonded]

I doubt blow it up. My guess is retool in the off season and let Sutter run out his contract and then tear it down after that.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I doubt blow it up. My guess is retool in the off season and let Sutter run out his contract and then tear it down after that.

This is exactly what I think they are going to do

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This is exactly what I think they are going to do

Yup, right or wrong, I can't see them blowing it up after hiring Sutter and signing Markstrom

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Treliving backed himself into this corner by not making the appropriate moves earlier when it was clear this core wasn't getting it done. Now he (or his successor) is looking at severely diminished returns and limited options for a tear-down. Risky or not, there's obviously no other choice so just rip the damn band aid off already and move on.

Yep, Treliving hitched his cart to the wrong horses and it’s looking more and more obvious that those horses just aren’t getting us to the top.

The really scary part is, he’s looking around and he realizes he’s halfway up to the top and halfway down to the bottom and us as fans honestly don’t know which direction he’s gonna go. Continue to be average for another 5 years and then rebuild or just start the rebuild now.