Home Theater Mega Thread

[TorqueDog]

I got my set of Totem Sttaf floorstanders off of CanuckAudioMart for a steal last year.

[Fuzz]

A lot of the streaming services have killed off 5.1 Dolby digital audio and are going with Dolby Atmos. Problem is my receiver is older, so more and more I get 2 channel. I don't really want to throw out a perfectly good receiver. Are there devices that take in HDMI and either convert the audio to Dolby digital, or split the output so video can go to my projector, and audio through toslink or SPDIF to the receiver? Or am I missing something obvious here?

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A lot of the streaming services have killed off 5.1 Dolby digital audio and are going with Dolby Atmos. Problem is my receiver is older, so more and more I get 2 channel. I don't really want to throw out a perfectly good receiver. Are there devices that take in HDMI and either convert the audio to Dolby digital, or split the output so video can go to my projector, and audio through toslink or SPDIF to the receiver? Or am I missing something obvious here?

How do you even tell what your output is (edit.. dumb question here)? I think you can still just let your receiver do the mixology?

For example with netflix I just use stereo because the 5.1 is so 'audaciously' bad, and then go with 'pro logic' or whatever sound mode I like on my receiver. Maybe I'm losing out on something but 5.1 seems horri-bad when I enable it (sound effects and speech are way out of whack).

In short.. can always just use stereo as output from streaming and let your receiver do the work.

[Fuzz]

I can tell on my receiver, as the input speaker sources light up. More and more I see the sad 2ch lights.



I presume you don't have something set properly, as 5.1 should provide better sound. Letting the receiver do magic to take it from 2 to 5.1 is better than just listening to 2 ch, but worse than a proper 5.1 source.

[calumniate]

I see what you're saying. I guess I took the extreme route of disabling surround sound altogether in my chromecast. Might not result in the best quality, but it's more consistent across streaming platforms to the point where I've forgotten about any difference

[Fuzz]

Hrmm, this device might work for me:


https://www.amazon.ca/Upgraded-Skycr...BMK/ref=sr_1_6

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A lot of the streaming services have killed off 5.1 Dolby digital audio and are going with Dolby Atmos. Problem is my receiver is older, so more and more I get 2 channel. I don't really want to throw out a perfectly good receiver. Are there devices that take in HDMI and either convert the audio to Dolby digital, or split the output so video can go to my projector, and audio through toslink or SPDIF to the receiver? Or am I missing something obvious here?

How are your streaming services connected to your receiver? In theory, Atmos should have backwards compatibility with older receiver because the Atmos data is added onto a DD+ stream (in streaming services). An old receiver should be able to ignore the Atmos data and just play the DD+ data for multi-channel audio as long as it gets the raw audio stream.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by accord1999

How are your streaming services connected to your receiver? In theory, Atmos should have backwards compatibility with older receiver because the Atmos data is added onto a DD+ stream (in streaming services). An old receiver should be able to ignore the Atmos data and just play the DD+ data for multi-channel audio as long as it gets the raw audio stream.

Hmm, I do go through a switch, since my receiver only has 2 HDMI ports. Maybe I'll try bypassing it. I just assumed it was the Atmos thing, since it used to work. But maybe Atmos gets dropped at the switch and only passes 2 channel. I'm using the newest Google TV Chromecast.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Hmm, I do go through a switch, since my receiver only has 2 HDMI ports. Maybe I'll try bypassing it. I just assumed it was the Atmos thing, since it used to work. But maybe Atmos gets dropped at the switch and only passes 2 channel. I'm using the newest Google TV Chromecast.

Dumb question but what is your set up?
Could an alternate set up that doesn't typically work with newer stuff actually work better for what you're trying to accomplish?

Could you in theory:
- optical from TV to receiver for sound
- HMDI direct to TV through switch for video/direct into the tv

I think people don't typically have to consider this anymore because of some type of 5.1 limitation? But maybe that optical limitation is exactly what you want? I recall going through this headache with my dad's stuff years ago where hdmi sound wasn't working but optical was working fine (somehow). I also seem to recall the active EQ was contributing to the problem as well while PCM vs Dolby/DTS was it's own issue as well. That's why I ask.

https://www.sfcable.com/blog/hdmi-vs...which-consider

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I can tell on my receiver, as the input speaker sources light up. More and more I see the sad 2ch lights.



I presume you don't have something set properly, as 5.1 should provide better sound. Letting the receiver do magic to take it from 2 to 5.1 is better than just listening to 2 ch, but worse than a proper 5.1 source.

For the record I think 5.1 works fine for me with chromecast plugged in directly to my receiver. It's mostly Netflix that is the outlier for me. Their 5.1 mix is bad, and it's well documented.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Dumb question but what is your set up?
Could an alternate set up that doesn't typically work with newer stuff actually work better for what you're trying to accomplish?

Could you in theory:
- optical from TV to receiver for sound
- HMDI direct to TV through switch for video/direct into the tv

I think people don't typically have to consider this anymore because of some type of 5.1 limitation? But maybe that optical limitation is exactly what you want? I recall going through this headache with my dad's stuff years ago where hdmi sound wasn't working but optical was working fine (somehow). I also seem to recall the active EQ was contributing to the problem as well while PCM vs Dolby/DTS was it's own issue as well. That's why I ask.

https://www.sfcable.com/blog/hdmi-vs...which-consider

I have a projector connected by HDMI from the receiver. Everything goes through an HDMI switch to the receiver, then video to the projector. I should have time tonight to test a direct connection plugging the Chromecast into the receiver. If that works, it's either the switch or old HDMI cables. I had to swap the one that went from the switch to the receiver to even get the new Chromecast to work(my old one worked fine).

[Fuzz]

So plugging it into the receiver doesn't get me 5.1 either. I did notice Prime video quality got vastly better plugged directly in though. And I found chromecast only worked on one port on my HDMI switch, so something is weird.


I think I'll give this switch a try, since it looks to be able to force output a 5.1 signal through the optical port:


https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09TZR4CZ1/...lig_dp_it&th=1

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So plugging it into the receiver doesn't get me 5.1 either. I did notice Prime video quality got vastly better plugged directly in though. And I found chromecast only worked on one port on my HDMI switch, so something is weird.


I think I'll give this switch a try, since it looks to be able to force output a 5.1 signal through the optical port:


https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09TZR4CZ1/...lig_dp_it&th=1

I Frankensteined a similar setup for years. Xbox one w/ pass through for cable box, running hdmi via cat 6 to the projector, and opticals from the Xbox and cable box to an older 7.1 receiver, since it’s hdmi was probably v1.0 but “it’s still a good receiver”. Finally bit the bullet and replaced the receiver when the right sale came along, and man, what a difference. Sound and picture are so much better with the receiver doing all the heavy lifting on the way to the projector. Wish I hadn’t waited so long. I want to watch every movie I have over again.

[Titan2]

Hi. So, I am wondering about the setup and whether a projector would be a good idea. As you can see, the tv is currently on the one wall. I am considering putting it on the other wall as it is wired for it already.

I know projectors are bigger but I am sceptical about the image quality and whether it would work in this room. Would love any thoughts people have. Thanks.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Hi. So, I am wondering about the setup and whether a projector would be a good idea. As you can see, the tv is currently on the one wall. I am considering putting it on the other wall as it is wired for it already.

I know projectors are bigger but I am sceptical about the image quality and whether it would work in this room. Would love any thoughts people have. Thanks.

It depends... what's your budget? Also, how dark does that room get? What is your intended use?

I can tell you a laser 4K UST projector is good quality. But if you don't spend the money on doing the wall property and project solely on the wall, then it'll obviously look worse than a TV. There's pros and cons to both, but wondering if 4K = 4K is not one of those primary concerns I'd personally have.

You can get quality display rivaling many 4K TVs out there and get the 100"+ size, but if it doesn't fit on the wall or your barely break 80-90" or you truly want a 120"+ size, what's the point of redoing this set up for an incremental gain? You're losing the projector's advantage. Buy a slightly bigger TV instead to use up that wall. (ie: I'm not sure of the size of your TV, but it doesn't look like there's too much room on each side to increase the size.

If it's blowing away your budget and it's more economical to go with a 4K TV set up, again there's no point. You can easily expect to blow around $3K-13K for just the projector and screen with laser ST, UST projectors at 4K. It can also potentially cost several grand for the appropriate type of screen that with display the light the best and also reject light from other sources than the projector.

If you do a lot of gaming and need certain refresh rates, either you'll have to consider increasing your budget for a projector or it just makes more sense to go with a TV.

I also didn't notice any sound system. Did you hide it well? Or is there another consideration that is required there?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Hi. So, I am wondering about the setup and whether a projector would be a good idea. As you can see, the tv is currently on the one wall. I am considering putting it on the other wall as it is wired for it already.

I know projectors are bigger but I am sceptical about the image quality and whether it would work in this room. Would love any thoughts people have. Thanks.

Projectors make white by reflecting white light off a screen, and they make black by reflecting nothing off a screen. Your room with the huge windows, light walls, light furniture, light flooring will always reflect something off a screen from ambient angles, and never be able to make black. Even at night, light from the brighter parts of the display itself will likely bounce around the room and land on darker parts of the screen, washing out blacks. While there are screens that reject ambient light, that also impacts their ability to make a truly bright white.

TVs - in particular OLEDs - are the superior option when size isn't a requirement.

I'm not anti-projector, but you need to be willing to have a room with dark, matte surfaces to get the most out of them.

[Titan2]

Thanks guys. I knew I could count on you two!

To be clear, this is not my house yet. If we get it, I am planning ahead. I have never had room for a projector, but the ones I have seen have not been super impressive. They were not expensive or set up like described above. I appreciate how much the screen would impact the experience. For the kind of money it would take to get a decent quality, it is not worth it for me.

My needs are modest. In my current place, I have a 55" Vizio, an Onkyo receiver and built-in speakers from Monoprice (I think). It is very basic and cost-effective but works for me and our basic viewing. I tend to game on smaller desktop screens, but that may change in the new place.

I like the effect I get from my current sound system, but after reading the above posts, that would be WAY overkill for my needs and ability to discern the difference. I am mostly a hockey and baseball viewer with occasional movies, but I do really enjoy the difference a nice sound system makes. I am not sure I would want to do built-ins again. We renovated, which is why I did them before. Stand speakers may be the way I go.

Strangely enough, around the corner, there is a space which is relatively small, but there are built-ins there. I think he may have had a dedicated 'watching' area separate from the living room area with a smaller TV that he sat closer to. The house has been staged, so it's hard to say what he did. A bit odd.

I am leaning towards a 65" TV and will utilize the Onkyo for now with some speakers.

I am very much an F-150, not a Lamborghini kind of guy when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks for your input. It was valuable to take the projector off the table.

[Titan2]

It would seem to me that a package like this one would be perfect for me with my existing receiver. Any thoughts?



https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...oofer/12243913

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Thanks guys. I knew I could count on you two!

To be clear, this is not my house yet. If we get it, I am planning ahead. I have never had room for a projector, but the ones I have seen have not been super impressive. They were not expensive or set up like described above. I appreciate how much the screen would impact the experience. For the kind of money it would take to get a decent quality, it is not worth it for me.

My needs are modest. In my current place, I have a 55" Vizio, an Onkyo receiver and built-in speakers from Monoprice (I think). It is very basic and cost-effective but works for me and our basic viewing. I tend to game on smaller desktop screens, but that may change in the new place.

I like the effect I get from my current sound system, but after reading the above posts, that would be WAY overkill for my needs and ability to discern the difference. I am mostly a hockey and baseball viewer with occasional movies, but I do really enjoy the difference a nice sound system makes. I am not sure I would want to do built-ins again. We renovated, which is why I did them before. Stand speakers may be the way I go.

Strangely enough, around the corner, there is a space which is relatively small, but there are built-ins there. I think he may have had a dedicated 'watching' area separate from the living room area with a smaller TV that he sat closer to. The house has been staged, so it's hard to say what he did. A bit odd.

I am leaning towards a 65" TV and will utilize the Onkyo for now with some speakers.

I am very much an F-150, not a Lamborghini kind of guy when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks for your input. It was valuable to take the projector off the table.

Projectors aren't bad and they have their uses. Some scenarios you do want a projector over a TV and can get more screen real estate at a decent comparable quality viewing for less than the cost of a similarly sized TV. In other scenarios, you buy the projector with all the bells and whistles and realize you have to use it well below its capabilities because the wall just isn't big enough. A lot of people don't realize how damn hard it is to find a flat wall that's 120-180" for the screen. Many walls are just around 90-110" when you go and measure them.

The prices sound crazy, but they aren't unreasonable once you start to dissect the break down on the prices vs screen size. Plus I kinda scared you off with the premium stuff. Laser projectors are perhaps the higher tier performance stuff like OLED in a 4K TV. It's not equal to OLED side by side, it's that it maintains its quality at those 120"+ sizes.

A 85" 4K TV is like $3-5K? so a 4K projector capable of 120-180" at 2-10K isn't unreasonable based on the size scale up when considering costs from a 55" ($1500 or below) to a 85" TV (double+). But you also may want to buy a good screen which depending on the features and quality, it's between $100-3,000 for (let's say) a 150" entry level fixed screen without great light rejection vs motorized screens with lots of light rejection.

https://www.visions.ca/catalogue/cat...hoCMRoQAvD_BwE


https://vividstorm.ca/product/vivids...xoChB8QAvD_BwE

So $8K for a 4K laser projector + $2000-3000 for the screen in the 100-150" range. Let's call it $10K for 150" and this is top of the line 4K laser projector. Similar in nature to inexpensive and expensive 4K TV of the same size (ie: OLED vs QLED, vs LED).

https://www.visions.ca/catalogue/cat...BoCWWUQAvD_BwE

https://www.amazon.ca/NIERBO-Double-Layer-Projector-Screen/dp/B08JXB7T2V/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3E00Q4FKTXL45&keywords=150"+screen &qid=1698961713&sprefix=150+screen%2Caps%2C145&sr= 8-6&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.b06bdbbe-20fd-4ebc-88cf-fa04f1ca0da8

$1800 for the projector + $80 for a 150" pretty good and solid 4K experience (ie: Akin to buying a Hisense or TCL TV or something?). That price point rivals the lower end 4K TVs in the 75-85" range and it's still capable of a bigger screen size. The question is whether you can or want the bigger size. Based on what you described as your viewing habits and pickiness, these "lower end" 4K projectors are still potentially worth considering. Maybe you just have to add a little extra for some black out blinds to the project as well.

One issue is... where can you put a 150" screen? Many walls aren't large enough for some of these projectors to really stretch their legs and show their strengths. It's a little like having a pick up truck with a pristine truck bed. 80-120" is still plenty big, but it's not the full capabilities of the projector, some of which try to boast 200"+ viewing. Unlike TVs that are basically always capable of max performance, sometimes for projectors you have to derive the performance you want from it, knowing you're leaving extra on the table. But like I said, if you try comparing it from a cost vs screen size vs performance scenario, they are decently competitive.


Projectors also have benefits in some scenarios that beat TVs. For instance, I have a fire place. I want a TV on top of the mantle.
Issues:
- Worried TV will fall down.
- If fire place is on, heat could damage and prematurely destroy a TV just above it.
- Have you tried putting a TV mount through a fixture wall? What if you drill a hole and the wrong gasses escape through that hole?
- Have you tried lifting a 65"+ TV and mounting it 6-8'+ high? That's supposed to be like 3 dudes and a scaffold, but how many of the rest of us sweated through less and still succeeded? Projector is much more doable with 1 person than a TV for stuff that high.

3 years ago, I bought a 1080P projector for around $900, an 80" screen that's retractable for around $120 and it which coincidentally just fit with less than a quarter inch to spare in the mantle space and then another $100 ish for an electrician to install an outlet on the ceiling. $1200 for an 80" 1080p screen wasn't bad at that time, I think I could get maybe 55" 4K TV for that price. Price wise, I think I can get a similar set up for the same price, but 4K right now if I wanted to. When we have friends over, we can retract everything and have a nice looking family room. But then we can convert it to a space to watch a movie on a large screen. You can't really do that with a TV with perhaps Samsung the Frame as an exception. But turning the TV into art isn't the same as retracting the screens and having it all sorta out of sight.

The projector is great for movies and other media. I'd prefer something OLED for hardcore gaming though, but it's passable on the projector if you're not picky (ie: Nintendo Switch is fine vs Playstation or Xbox at max details).

Another scenario worth considering is a basement. Retract the screen and have the projector/other hardware in a protective box. Kids can't really break anything if they're throwing things around etc. so you don't have to worry as much with that set up vs a dedicated TV or tell them to stay away. I haven't delved deeply into it, but I do believe some people spend time to basically hide almost all of their home theatre set up and especially like how they can hide it all with a projector type set up vs a TV set up.

Originally Posted by Titan2

It would seem to me that a package like this one would be perfect for me with my existing receiver. Any thoughts?



https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...oofer/12243913

I think they'll be good speakers for your needs, but I'm not sure what specs your Onkyo has and if you'd probably be better off upgrading the receiver as well. Onkyo are usually good value entry level. I don't know the details of the specs of those speakers, but they seem like they'd be a little power hungry to me which means if paired with your Onkyo, it might work fine, but not to their best capability. But I don't know the Onkyo specs either. Knowing typical Onkyo performances though, I'd probably get a nice receiver to go with the new system and keep the Onkyo for another mini side system.

I'd be curious to know if you'd contemplated regular floor placement or if you'd ceiling/wall mount some of those speakers. Do it right and you barely notice it, plus you might get some guests looking around for where the sound is coming out in surprise. That beam on the ceiling looks like it could help you in that endeavor.

It's not necessary, it's just what you want to do and how you want to enjoy it.

[Fuzz]

Projectors are also better for the eyes.



https://hometheateracademy.com/tv-vs-projector-eyes/


I have one, but am in a light controlled basement.