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Old 05-28-2021, 01:22 PM   #21
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*looks at roster, weeps
This isn’t a fair take IMO. Considering where we’ve drafted ruing this rebuild we’ve done extremely well, especially outside the 1st round.

Monahan and Tkachuk are good players for picking 6th overall.

The problem isn’t the scouting, it’s that we haven’t drafted high enough to pick anyone the scouts liked better.
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:23 PM   #22
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If you remember though, Jay Feaster specifically named John Weisbrod as the scout who liked Mark Jankowski. Last I checked, John Weisbrod worked for the Canucks.
I don’t think this is true, I think remember Feaster saying Button scouted him in person and called Weisbrod to say “I’ve just found the best player in the draft”


Unless the assistant GM was watching a private school play in person which would be odd to say the least. I’ll try to find the interview
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:25 PM   #23
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Firings were going to happen either right away once the season was finished, or after their internal review process.



I, for one, am glad that the Flames do a review process and get all their ducks in a line. I am disappointed in this season (and honestly, don't have much in the way of optimism that this team is going to start contending in the seasons to come), but I don't need a pound of flesh to appease me.


Do your review process. Fire who you think are either not helping this organization move forward, or who you don't think are able to help move this forward. Keep the personnel that you think can. Change for the sake of change is short-sighted and doesn't promote a winning atmosphere either.


Though it wouldn't exactly be a knee-jerk reaction to fire Treliving, I do appreciate that the Flames are not a team that is in the habit of making knee jerk reactions. I am glad that they undergo a review process. There is no rush right now anyway. Playoffs are still happening, and most teams will want to listen to offers from every team, as you don't know who will always become available until all the teams are out - either from a roster perspective or a front-office/coaching perspective.


As for the Avs' scout - scouting isn't an issue on the Flames (in fact, I consider it to be their biggest strength), but if the budget allows, I would be all for hiring him. However, I would probably think he is going to want something more senior. How many diamonds in the rough have the Avs found in the later rounds? Good job on drafting the higher picks that they have recently, as they were not all 'givens', but I don't know his history enough to feel he is an upgrade over Button. No point in changing that up when it seems to be working well here. As an add? 100% on-board with bringing him into Calgary. As a replacement? Not so sure about it.
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:27 PM   #24
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I don’t think this is true, I think remember Feaster saying Button scouted him in person and called Weisbrod to say “I’ve just found the best player in the draft”


Unless the assistant GM was watching a private school play in person which would be odd to say the least. I’ll try to find the interview
Button suggested him to Weisbrod. Weisbrod was driving in eastern part and hit a snow storm so he changed directions to see janko play instead. After seeing him he called feaster with the news “ best player in draft”. Weisbrod was also on record saying that if janko was gone he would have had no problem taking Seailoff in his place.
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:34 PM   #25
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Button suggested him to Weisbrod. Weisbrod was driving in eastern part and hit a snow storm so he changed directions to see janko play instead. After seeing him he called feaster with the news “ best player in draft”. Weisbrod was also on record saying that if janko was gone he would have had no problem taking Seailoff in his place.
Fire everyone involved
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:41 PM   #26
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Tre, Connie, Pascal, Snow, Maloney plus all the coaches are pro scouts in function, if not in title
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
If you remember though, Jay Feaster specifically named John Weisbrod as the scout who liked Mark Jankowski. Last I checked, John Weisbrod worked for the Canucks.

The steal of the first round!


https://nationalpost.com/sports/hock...of-first-round
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:50 PM   #28
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Fire everyone involved
Button can stay as he’s the guy who found Johnny and Nikita Kucherov. The Flames just waited too long to nab him, but he saw something in them and that’s more important. Weisbrod I’m pretty sure has been gone for a while now and Feaster definitely has been gone for a while.

Also, the Jankowski pick gets a lot of flak for the “best player in the draft” quote. At the end of the day though, he’s turned out to be an everyday NHLer and for a #21st pick in a weak 2012 draft, that’s not too bad as a lot of picks in the 20’s end up being average players or busts anyway.
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:55 PM   #29
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Button can stay as he’s the guy who found Johnny and Nikita Kucherov. The Flames just waited too long to nab him, but he saw something in them and that’s more important. Weisbrod I’m pretty sure has been gone for a while now and Feaster definitely has been gone for a while.

Also, the Jankowski pick gets a lot of flak for the “best player in the draft” quote. At the end of the day though, he’s turned out to be an everyday NHLer and for a #21st pick in a weak 2012 draft, that’s not too bad as a lot of picks in the 20’s end up being average players or busts anyway.
I’m aware Feaster and Weisbrod are gone it was just a joke. They should be fired twice for Jankowski (they traded down to 21 FYI and every player they passed on is really good)

I also give Button zero credit for “finding Kucherov” by mentioning he was close to taking him before going with Wotherspoon and Granlund instead. If anything that makes him look worse
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:08 PM   #30
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Let's not forget Porier and Klimchuk.

I don't think our drafting has been all that great.

A couple of hits with Mangi and Andersson but I doubt we're above average in homegrown talent.
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:14 PM   #31
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Let's not forget Porier and Klimchuk.

I don't think our drafting has been all that great.

A couple of hits with Mangi and Andersson but I doubt we're above average in homegrown talent.
We're so accustomed to the drafting being godawful for so long that being average looks like a huge accomplishment.
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:16 PM   #32
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Management is just working out the final details of the Eichel deal...nothing to report yet
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:20 PM   #33
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Let's not forget Porier and Klimchuk.

I don't think our drafting has been all that great.

A couple of hits with Mangi and Andersson but I doubt we're above average in homegrown talent.
CP has a very specific way of assigning blame for bad drafts to whoever isn’t here anymore and credit for good drafts to whoever is currently in charge.

2016 - great draft that proves Treliving and Button are competent
2015 - great draft that proves Treliving and Button are competent
2014 - BURKE MADE EVERY PICK AND TRADE despite admitting he had zero say in hockey decisions at that point
2013 - Weisbrod and Feaster messed it up
2012 - Weisbrod and Feaster messed it up
2011 - Button did a great job by passing on Kucherov and taking Johnny. Weisbrod and Feaster had zero involvement
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post

Also, the Jankowski pick gets a lot of flak for the “best player in the draft” quote. At the end of the day though, he’s turned out to be an everyday NHLer and for a #21st pick in a weak 2012 draft, that’s not too bad as a lot of picks in the 20’s end up being average players or busts anyway.
Don't forget that the Flames traded down (I think it was with Washington). The 5 guys selected prior to Jankowski:

Tom Wilson
Tomas Hertl
Teuvo Teravainen
Andrei Vasilevsky
Scott Laughton

That's two top 6 forwards, an impact player in Wilson, a franchise goalie and a quality 3rd line centre.

This team would be so much farther ahead with any of the top 4 guys above. They'd probably be better off with Laughton too though I get why you go for the higher risk prospect in Jankowski. But passing on Hertl and Teravainen was bad. I remember many on this board wanted Teravainen.

The Jankowski pick just reeks of "I'm the smartest guy in the room".

To clarify, my problem is with Weisbrod and not so much Button. I think even if Button preferred any of those guys above, Weisbrod had final say and was going to take Jankowski.
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:22 PM   #35
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I’m aware Feaster and Weisbrod are gone it was just a joke. They should be fired twice for Jankowski (they traded down to 21 FYI and every player they passed on is really good)

I also give Button zero credit for “finding Kucherov” by mentioning he was close to taking him before going with Wotherspoon and Granlund instead. If anything that makes him look worse
True. But think about 10 years ago. Back in 2011, it was a bigger league and teams were afraid to draft smaller players like Gaudreau. Kucherov was a pretty small guy too, so he fell into the same boat.

I'm not going to harp on Button too much, none of us know the discussions that occur in those amateur scouting meetings. Methinks Brian Burke had a big say in 2013 and 2014 though. Look at the Keegan Kanzig and Hunter Smith picks, 100% Brian Burke players. Since those Burke lead drafts, the Flames seem to have went the opposite direction now under Treliving where they're looking at smaller skilled players.
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:28 PM   #36
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Don't forget that the Flames traded down (I think it was with Washington). The 5 guys selected prior to Jankowski:

Tom Wilson
Tomas Hertl
Teuvo Teravainen
Andrei Vasilevsky
Scott Laughton

That's two top 6 forwards, an impact player in Wilson, a franchise goalie and a quality 3rd line centre.

This team would be so much farther ahead with any of the top 4 guys above. They'd probably be better off with Laughton too though I get why you go for the higher risk prospect in Jankowski. But passing on Hertl and Teravainen was bad. I remember many on this board wanted Teravainen.

The Jankowski pick just reeks of "I'm the smartest guy in the room".
Yes, trust me, I've thought about this team with a Tomas Hertl and an Andrei Vasilevsky as well. But it is what it is, when your head scout is saying I've got the "best player in the draft" here and he can be had in the 20s, then stuff like this happens. The Flames were trying to win at that time and liked trading picks, so this is another byproduct of that, recouping picks. On the flip side though, you end up passing on good players and look stupid in the process.

Weisbrod ain't here no more though, so it's all good. I really don't have issues with the amateur scouting side, they do good work with what they have. Heck, they recently drafted Adam Fox who's ready to be a perennial Norris candidate in the third round!
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:36 PM   #37
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CP has a very specific way of assigning blame for bad drafts to whoever isn’t here anymore and credit for good drafts to whoever is currently in charge.

2016 - great draft that proves Treliving and Button are competent
2015 - great draft that proves Treliving and Button are competent
2014 - BURKE MADE EVERY PICK AND TRADE despite admitting he had zero say in hockey decisions at that point
2013 - Weisbrod and Feaster messed it up
2012 - Weisbrod and Feaster messed it up
2011 - Button did a great job by passing on Kucherov and taking Johnny. Weisbrod and Feaster had zero involvement
It's not a CP thing. It's common sense.

When Sutter was the GM they had a huge lean towards size and being from Western Canada. Craig Button was into Russia, but that went away completely when he was let go.

Feaster didn't have as much a set plan, was all over the place.

Bryan Burke had them back into drafting big again in his one year at the table.

Under Treliving they've taken more swings at high end skill regardless of issue (skating, size).

Different guys at the top change what happens in a scouting group. Seems silly to look past that.

I think Treliving has given his scouting staff a larger voice and with that they've found some gems late in the draft. Not popular to support Treliving these days, but this is one area he has clearly improved.
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:37 PM   #38
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Yes, trust me, I've thought about this team with a Tomas Hertl and an Andrei Vasilevsky as well. But it is what it is, when your head scout is saying I've got the "best player in the draft" here and he can be had in the 20s, then stuff like this happens. The Flames were trying to win at that time and liked trading picks, so this is another byproduct of that, recouping picks. On the flip side though, you end up passing on good players and look stupid in the process.

Weisbrod ain't here no more though, so it's all good. I really don't have issues with the amateur scouting side, they do good work with what they have. Heck, they recently drafted Adam Fox who's ready to be a perennial Norris candidate in the third round!
Hate to rain on the parade but Button had Linus Lindstrom ahead of Adam Fox and got persuaded by Jim Cummins to even take him
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:41 PM   #39
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It's not a CP thing. It's common sense.

When Sutter was the GM they had a huge lean towards size and being from Western Canada. Craig Button was into Russia, but that went away completely when he was let go.

Feaster didn't have as much a set plan, was all over the place.

Bryan Burke had them back into drafting big again in his one year at the table.

Under Treliving they've taken more swings at high end skill regardless of issue (skating, size).

Different guys at the top change what happens in a scouting group. Seems silly to look past that.

I think Treliving has given his scouting staff a larger voice and with that they've found some gems late in the draft. Not popular to support Treliving these days, but this is one area he has clearly improved.
Burke never had a “year at the table”. Treliving was full on general manager for the 2014 draft. He made the Bollig trade, Burke said he wasn’t making hockey decisions when he announced the Treliving hire


Unless you meant literally “sat at the scouting table” which in that case Burke should share the credit for 2015 and 2016 as well, he had the exact same role for those good drafts as he did in 2014
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:42 PM   #40
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This seems crazy to me. How do you expect to steal any underrated players or win any trades involving pro players?
Is this a "Flames" thing, though? How many pro scouts do most teams employ relative to their roster of amateur scouts? It makes sense to me that thete would not be nearly as many.

But regardless of the number, they definitely have not been getting the job done.

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