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Old 03-29-2022, 03:05 PM   #61
getoverit
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You get 10-11 million in cap space.
I get what your saying but would rather trade Tkatchuk and get great assets back and fill our cupboards and sign Gaudreau. Heís the engine that drives our offence. Loosing Gaudreau for nothing is just bad asset mgmt IMO.
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Old 03-29-2022, 03:07 PM   #62
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You get 10-11 million in cap space.
Whatís is the cap space for if you canít compete.

Nobody can replace Johnny

I would rather trade Backlund or pay someone to take Monahan and Lucic

If you donít sign Johnny then sell everyone for a complete rebuild
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Old 03-29-2022, 03:17 PM   #63
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What’s is the cap space for if you can’t compete.

Nobody can replace Johnny

I would rather trade Backlund or pay someone to take Monahan and Lucic

If you don’t sign Johnny then sell everyone for a complete rebuild
An 10-11 million dollar Johnny isn't some game breaking asset. Especially if he reverts to his norm for the past 5 years.

Not only that but your suggestion is to pay a bunch of assets for someone to take Lucic and/or possibly lose our 2C? If you trade Lucic and Monahan this summer you are likely looking at 2 firsts equivalent. That's bad asset management to me.

And who the hell would play 2C in that scenario you trade Backlund? Dube? Jarnkrok? What team has ever had success with two 10 million dollar LWs? Toronto struggles with two 10 million centers. Meanwhile we'd have 5 wingers signed long term that could all play top 6 roles with one good center.

If you wanted to you could keep Gaudreau and trade Tkachuk. Same cap effect but I think Tkachuk is the better long term fit.
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Old 03-29-2022, 03:20 PM   #64
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You have to wait and see what Johnny does before you make any big changes, the ball is 100% in his court. If he decides to go elsewhere there isn't a thing the Flames can do about it.

Then you try to utilize the cap space the best you can, because while Johnny isn't going to be fully replaced by one player in his stead, you can certainly do your best to improve the club with the huge increase in cap space and still ice a competitive team.

If he stays, then you try to move on from a couple of bad contracts and build the depth back up around him. I certainly wouldn't put Backlund in that category though.
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Old 03-29-2022, 03:36 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by DJones View Post
If you trade Lucic and Monahan this summer you are likely looking at 2 firsts equivalent. That's bad asset management to me.
.
That would be very bad asset management

Good thing Lucic won't cost anywhere near that with 1$ million in cash on his contract next year (Assuming he waives)

He will be playing for Seattle next season providing leadership and protection for their young players. And I don't even think the Flames will need to attach much of a sweetener.

Monahan is trickier. I think we see a D paid ~2.5/3million on a expiring contract come back (Similar to Zad or Gun) to replace them to a team hoping for an offense boost from Monny playing him on the 2nd line. Flames may have to attach a prospect, but teams are always looking for offense and I believe someone will look at Monny and think putting him with a playmaker on the 2nd line can get you 25 goals again.

Flames probably end up take a contract back thats expiring or has 2 years left to make it happen, and it seems to make since an underachieving D to be that contract especially if we loose our 3rd pairing to UFA
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Old 03-29-2022, 03:43 PM   #66
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That is a fun exercise. TIL, as a Flames fan, I am glad I am not the GM. After assuming that the Flames pay a premium for Guadreau, do not resign Tkachuk, buyout Monahan, can't move Looch, and make some trades, here's the result for the 22/23 season

Gaudreau 11M Lindholm 4.85M Mangiapane 7M
Duclair 3M Zacha 3.9M Toffoli 4.25
Debrusk 4M Jarnkrok 3M Coleman 4.9M
Lucic 5.25 Ruzicka 2M Lewis 800K

Kylington 5M Andersson 4.55M
Tanev 4.5M Gudas 2.5M
Clifton 1M Valimaki 1.55M

Markstrom 6M
Vladar 750K

Trades involved were Hanifin to Fla for Duclair and Gudas
Backlund and Dube to Boston for Debrusk and Clifton

Why do the teams do these trades? I dunno. Fla has offence but could use better defense? Debrusk and Dube are reclamation projects and the Bruins miss Krejci at centre and Clifton is expendable.

Zacha signed as an RFA

Monahan bought out - cap hit 2.375M
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:30 PM   #67
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I've been browsing CP for 11 years and for 11 years everyone has been saying Backlund needs to be traded for something. (weekly!). It's mind boggling.
I don’t get it either. I use to say Johnny was the most under appreciated player around here, but I think Backlund is slowly creeping up to #1 now with Johnny’s new found appreciation on CP (finally!).

I’m just glad Darryl is the one in charge around here though. I believe Backlund also ended up playing the most 5 on 5 minutes on the team (at forward) against the Oilers last Saturday. When Darryl plays you the most, it’s because he trusts you and I don’t think Darryl would be ok with Treliving getting rid of guys who he trusts.

So whether or not CP likes him, the coach and GM do and that’s all that matters.
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:42 PM   #68
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I get what your saying but would rather trade Tkatchuk and get great assets back and fill our cupboards and sign Gaudreau. Heís the engine that drives our offence. Loosing Gaudreau for nothing is just bad asset mgmt IMO.
Trade Tkachuk? This is madness. Tkachuk helps Johnny almost as much as Johnny helps Tkachuk. Thatís why itís such a beautiful partnership. He helps Gaudreau play more off the puck which is what I always said would make Johnny better. Together with Lindholm, they create the best line in the league. Thereís a lot of value in having the best line in the league.

No way am I giving that up. The only reason Iíd even consider trading Tkachuk is if he refuses to sign a multi year deal so he can bolt to St Louis in 2023 or where ever else. Thatís probably it. Iím not even sure why heíd do that with the individual and team success heís seeing this season. I think he would re-up here if the price was right.
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:55 PM   #69
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Very much enjoy all these scenarios of actively making the Flames much worse by blowing up the team, losing Johnny for nothing, buying out our most underrated player Backlund, etc..

I, for one, hope the best team in the Pacific and the most enjoyable team in my lifetime stays as much together as possible with a couple moves to free up the necessary cap
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:06 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL View Post
Very much enjoy all these scenarios of actively making the Flames much worse by blowing up the team, losing Johnny for nothing, buying out our most underrated player Backlund, etc..

I, for one, hope the best team in the Pacific and the most enjoyable team in my lifetime stays as much together as possible with a couple moves to free up the necessary cap
Thank you for a little bit of reason here. The NHL 2022 be a general manager stuff is a little silly and unrealistic. Treliving isn’t going to blow up the roster that has essentially saved his career. Some cap work will be necessary this offseason, but he’s definitely going to want to keep the core that got him to this point.
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:16 PM   #71
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I would keep the team as close to this as possible.

You can't because key players will need a raise and there isn't enough cap space to afford everyone. The team cannot look the same next year, changes are inevitable.

You're stupid for making changes!
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:57 PM   #72
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See how that goes, then go all in 2024. If that doesn't work, blow the core up. ya losing Gaudreau will hurt but our wingers are still strong.
Losing Gaudreau is like Colorado losing McKinnon. If we canít keep Gaudreau, blow it up. This is the Gaudreau window IMO, keep trying to win while heís on the team.
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Old 03-29-2022, 06:00 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Flamesfan05 View Post
He needs to clear cap space to bring back Johnny, Tkachuk, Mangi and Kylington

Jarnkrok and Gud are also good piece.

That requires hard work. GMs are not pounding the door for Monahan and Lucic. If they are and he is not trading them then he is dumber than I thought.

As for Backlund, itís just dollar value and sacrifice. Dube, Jarnkrok and Ruzicka should be able to adequately do his job

No ####. We have one of the best teams in the league and in the history of the organization. Youíve been wrong about Tre and the proof is in the pudding. Everyone who even remotely follows the Flames understands we need to clear cap to keep the core togetherÖ itís very basic math. I would imagine the GM understands this.
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Old 03-29-2022, 06:26 PM   #74
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Yeah if they have some playoff success this year I'd be very reluctant to change out much of the core. Who knows how long Sutter wants to stick around? I think it's doable to keep the top 9/top 4 together with a bit of cost savings elsewhere.


Assumptions:
Gaudreau for $10M
Tkachuk for $9M (QO if need be)
Mangiapane for $5M
Kylington for $3.5M
Monahan + Lucic + draft picks for future considerations somewhere


That leaves us about $5M extra padding to work with on the bottom half of the roster (assuming $1M per spot as a baseline), so something like:

$2M to bring back Gudbranson again
$3M for a 3C or LW (if Dube slides into Center). Jury's out on Jarnkrok for me, but potentially bring him back for 3C
$2M for a vet 4C (Cody Eakin type?)


So something like:
Gaudreau-Lindhom-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Backlund-Toffoli
Dube-Jarnkrok-Coleman
Pelletier-Eakin-Ritchie
Duehr



Hanifin-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Mackey-Gudbranson
Stone


Markstrom
Vladar




Could also skip re-signing Jarnkrok, slide Dube to 3C and Pelletier up to 3LW to save another $2M if we needed it elsewhere.


That said, not a lot of room for error - might have to make a tough call somewhere and subtract one core-ish piece.
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Old 03-29-2022, 07:52 PM   #75
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That would be very bad asset management

Good thing Lucic won't cost anywhere near that with 1$ million in cash on his contract next year (Assuming he waives)

He will be playing for Seattle next season providing leadership and protection for their young players. And I don't even think the Flames will need to attach much of a sweetener.

Monahan is trickier. I think we see a D paid ~2.5/3million on a expiring contract come back (Similar to Zad or Gun) to replace them to a team hoping for an offense boost from Monny playing him on the 2nd line. Flames may have to attach a prospect, but teams are always looking for offense and I believe someone will look at Monny and think putting him with a playmaker on the 2nd line can get you 25 goals again.

Flames probably end up take a contract back thats expiring or has 2 years left to make it happen, and it seems to make since an underachieving D to be that contract especially if we loose our 3rd pairing to UFA
Who would look at Monny and think he can bring 25 goals as a 2nd line centre?

This is not a slump, this is a player who is physically unable to perform.
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Old 03-29-2022, 07:57 PM   #76
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Who would look at Monny and think he can bring 25 goals as a 2nd line centre?

This is not a slump, this is a player who is physically unable to perform.
Ottawa traded for Cheechoo with that mindset. I think it’s a pretty similar situation.
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Old 03-29-2022, 08:28 PM   #77
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Ottawa traded for Cheechoo with that mindset. I think itís a pretty similar situation.
Using the outlier to prove the premise.

Yeah letís assume one bad move 12 or so years ago will be repeated simply because we want it so.
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Old 03-29-2022, 08:30 PM   #78
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Using the outlier to prove the premise.

Yeah letís assume one bad move 12 or so years ago will be repeated simply because we want it so.
Itís an example. How many would you like?
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Old 03-29-2022, 08:42 PM   #79
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Who would look at Monny and think he can bring 25 goals as a 2nd line centre?

This is not a slump, this is a player who is physically unable to perform.
A team who will play him on the PP and 2nd line with a playmaking winger

It isnít like he has years left. And if you send back a 3 million contract you donít want youíre taking a 3.5 million chance on a 1 year bounce back who you can trade at the deadline if he shows anything and recoup a pick

Monny is a very low risk high reward contract for a team with cap room

If it doesnít work at all heís gone after 1 year . If it does you get a 2nd/3rd at next years TDL

Like I said I think Flames will need to take a contract back and I expect it to be a 5/6 D making 3ish million . Maybe even someone with 2 years left.
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