Ethiopian Max 8 crashes, Canadians on board

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Are you capable of holding a conversation without coming across like a total dickhead?

He is right though. Alot of people dont want to think that their good old american made jets would ever crash so they want to believe the dumb 3rd world pilots are to blame. This is clearly an issue of American corporate greed costing the life of hundreds in 2 seperate plane crashes. If it was the fault of the pilots the whole worlds max 8s would not be grounded.

Boeing Executives should be put in jail for the murder of hundreds of people.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

He is right though. Alot of people dont want to think that their good old american made jets would ever crash so they want to believe the dumb 3rd world pilots are to blame. This is clearly an issue of American corporate greed costing the life of hundreds in 2 seperate plane crashes. If it was the fault of the pilots the whole worlds max 8s would not be grounded.

Boeing Executives should be put in jail for the murder of hundreds of people.

This guy tin foils

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Ducay

This guy tin foils

Whats tin foily about this please explain.

[Acey]

Presumably the "Boeing execs in jail for hundreds of counts of murder" statement, which represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes murder.

[FlameOn]

So it looks like the FAA is going to review and approve the software updates the Boeing is putting out soon, but it appears the AoA sensor that is used by the MCAS system had been reported as malfunctioning more than 200 times previously to the FAA.

One of the problems with the MCAS software investigation found was the Boeing software replied on only one of the AoA sensors to make it's decision on whether to nose down as a break from the triple redundancy typical for flight control systems. Hopefully they fix this in the update.

The device linked to the Boeing 737 Max software that has been scrutinized after two deadly crashes was previously flagged in more than 200 incident reports submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration, but Boeing did not flight test a scenario in which it malfunctioned, CNN has learned.

The angle-of-attack (AOA) sensor, as it's known, sends data to a 737 Max software system that pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it senses an imminent stall. That software, triggered by erroneous data from AOA sensors, is believed to have played a role in crashes of Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines jets.

Former Boeing engineers and aviation analysts interviewed by CNN have criticized Boeing's original software design for relying on data from a single AOA sensor, claiming that those devices are vulnerable to defects.
FAA data analyzed by CNN supports that assessment.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/polit...faa/index.html

[Snuffleupagus]

Does anyone know if this particular AOA sensor is different on the MAX or is it on other 737's?

Originally Posted by Acey

Presumably the "Boeing execs in jail for hundreds of counts of murder" statement, which represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes murder.

Manslaughter is more fitting

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

So it looks like the FAA is going to review and approve the software updates the Boeing is putting out soon, but it appears the AoA sensor that is used by the MCAS system had been reported as malfunctioning more than 200 times previously to the FAA.

One of the problems with the MCAS software investigation found was the Boeing software replied on only one of the AoA sensors to make it's decision on whether to nose down as a break from the triple redundancy typical for flight control systems. Hopefully they fix this in the update.



https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/polit...faa/index.html

I posted about the AoA sensor reliability issues in my prior post, including an A320 incident that nearly averted a similar crash due to faulty AoA sensor by the same manufacturer.

This line should scare everyone though:

The device linked to the Boeing 737 Max software that has been scrutinized after two deadly crashes was previously flagged in more than 200 incident reports submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration, but Boeing did not flight test a scenario in which it malfunctioned, CNN has learned.

The angle-of-attack (AOA) sensor, as it's known, sends data to a 737 Max software system that pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it senses an imminent stall. That software, triggered by erroneous data from AOA sensors, is believed to have played a role in crashes of Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines jets.

Former Boeing engineers and aviation analysts interviewed by CNN have criticized Boeing's original software design for relying on data from a single AOA sensor, claiming that those devices are vulnerable to defects.
FAA data analyzed by CNN supports that assessment.

In other words, Boeing did not flight test the MCAS system (software that was not disclosed to pilots prior) under malfunctioning or non optimal conditions. How on earth did this pass scrutiny? Yeah it works fine when everything works, but we don't bother to test if something else failed, and causes the plane to dive to its doom.

The fact that they don't even test possible and probable failure scenarios should be incredibly alarming.

[Lubicon]

This sounds very similar. Faulty AoA sensors leading to triggering of a stall prevention system.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...aoa-vane-issue

[Snuffleupagus]

Nm

[Red]

Boeing replacing inspectors with technology.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ty/3650026002/
Boeing knew about the issues for more than a year, but decided to not do anything about it.

www.bbc.com/news/business-48174797

[shane_c]

Got an email from Iceland Air this morning that no longer offering flights to and from Halifax, partially due to the Max 8 planes, and that they cancelled our flight. Gave us the option of rescheduling or getting refund. The trip was booked as 2 separate return flights (Halifax - Iceland return / Iceland to Norway return) so they would only give refund of the Halifax to Iceland portion. So rescheduled an now take Porter to Montreal and have a 8 hr layover before going to Iceland. On the way back now going to Toronto and getting Westjet from there to Halifax, arriving here around 1:00am (about 7 hrs later than originally booked).

[chemgear]

Well, this ain't good.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/us/bo...ots/index.html

Audio reveals pilots angrily confronting Boeing about 737 Max feature before second deadly crash

Just months before a second deadly crash of a Boeing 737 Max airplane, American Airlines pilots angrily confronted a Boeing official about a computerized anti-stall system that preliminary reports have now implicated in both deadly wrecks, audio obtained by CBS News reveals.

On the audio, a Boeing official is heard telling pilots that software changes were coming, perhaps in as little as six weeks, but that the company didn't want to hurry the process.

"We flat out deserve to know what is on our airplanes," a pilot is heard saying.

"I don't disagree," the unidentified Boeing official answers.

"These guys didn't even know the damn system was on the airplane," a pilot says, seemingly referring to the Lion Air pilots. "Nor did anybody else."

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Well, this ain't good.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/us/bo...ots/index.html

Audio reveals pilots angrily confronting Boeing about 737 Max feature before second deadly crash

Just months before a second deadly crash of a Boeing 737 Max airplane, American Airlines pilots angrily confronted a Boeing official about a computerized anti-stall system that preliminary reports have now implicated in both deadly wrecks, audio obtained by CBS News reveals.

On the audio, a Boeing official is heard telling pilots that software changes were coming, perhaps in as little as six weeks, but that the company didn't want to hurry the process.

"We flat out deserve to know what is on our airplanes," a pilot is heard saying.

"I don't disagree," the unidentified Boeing official answers.

"These guys didn't even know the damn system was on the airplane," a pilot says, seemingly referring to the Lion Air pilots. "Nor did anybody else."

People need to go to jail over this, at the very least involuntary manslaughter.

[Wormius]

At that point, I thought pilots still didn’t really know the Lion Air crash was related to the MCAS?

[Northendzone]

it is sure going to be interesting to see how the dust settles on all of this. when does boeing release a software fix? what will the testing look like? how will the fluying public react to getting on a max 8 after the testing/software upgrade? the inevitable lawsuits?

boeing's stock over the past year has been up and down opening at $323, then climbing to $440 and it is now at $346

[burn_this_city]

Boeing knew within weeks that MCAS caused the Lion Air crash, they tried to obfuscate the cause so the public would assume it's just your run of the mill sketchy south Asian airline.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

it is sure going to be interesting to see how the dust settles on all of this. when does boeing release a software fix? what will the testing look like? how will the fluying public react to getting on a max 8 after the testing/software upgrade? the inevitable lawsuits?

boeing's stock over the past year has been up and down opening at $323, then climbing to $440 and it is now at $346

I think you are going to have a real hard time selling people on flying on the Max 8 again.

I've survived 4 flights, thats good enough for me!

[Fuzz]

Boeing has completed development of the updated software for the 737 MAX, along with associated simulator testing and the company’s engineering test flight. To date, Boeing has flown the 737 MAX with updated MCAS software for more than 360 hours on 207 flights. Boeing is now providing additional information to address Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) requests that include detail on how pilots interact with the airplane controls and displays in different flight scenarios. Once the requests are addressed, Boeing will work with the FAA to schedule its certification test flight and submit final certification documentation.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-re...ts?item=130434


Progress...

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I think you are going to have a real hard time selling people on flying on the Max 8 again.

I've survived 4 flights, that's good enough for me!

Hard to say for sure. People did not seem to react in a negative way to the rudder hard-over issues the 737 suffered years ago and there were at least three fatal crashes (several in the U.S.).

[Acey]

People won't care. If they do, discount those tickets $20 vs the Airbus and they'll fill up again.