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Old 05-23-2018, 01:38 PM   #6001
IliketoPuck
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
https://twitter.com/statuses/999306151912263681


Justin might have girlfriend in Canada syndrome


https://twitter.com/statuses/999313788422774784


Sounds more and more like they're preparing us for Kinder to step away.
This is insane.

The government is backdoor negotiating for a third party to take over the project?

Just nationalize it and be done with it. Our reputation is in the mud as is, might as well throw the tactical nuke at investors while we're at it.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:01 PM   #6002
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This is an issue that I have. It wasnt 6 weeks.

Thats the whole point. It was 6 weeks at the point that KM got tired of playing the 'Let Canada Bicker at Each Other' game.

This has been in development longer than Ken King's half-assed 'Calgary Next' proposal, but the Government are just too weak and stupid to do anything about it.

Justin is the best example: "It will be built!"

Even Rachel Notley understands that this pipeline is effectively her party's only chance at maintaining power and even she didnt do anything until it was basically too late.

We have to come to the inevitable conclusion: Canada, Alberta specifically, is not a good place to do business anymore.

Just to maybe expand a bit. When Kinder put in their deadline and stopped spending uneccessary funds it was because they felt that the various levels of government weren't doing anything to provide them with certainty.


when the government formed in BC with the warning that they were going to ignore the Liberal deal with Alberta for the expansion, both levels of governments really should have started their approaches at that point. Instead they sat back and figured that if they ignored it, they could expend this mess past the next election.


When the BC government started talking reference questions and their own solicitor general said, we're not going to win this, the Federal Government should have said, file this and that 4 billion dollar infrastructure check is going back into my pocket. When Notley put on the wine boycott, she should have refused to remove it unless BC promised a compromise, instead she took it off to appear nice.


Bill 12 should have been passed about 6 or 7 months ago at the height of BC and the BC municipal governments messing around with court cases and with permits, that way the question could have been answered whether Bill 12 is constitutional or not. At this point when Notley didn't do it, the BC government basically knew we were toothless and all they had to do was hold on until the deadline passed and Kinder didn't do this.


The Federal Government has been incredibly tone deaf on this whole file, and its now really apparent as you can feel the panic setting in.


Kinder didn't ask for indemnity insurance, they didn't ask for a dime. This to them was a profitable project. What they wanted was the ability for shovels to hit the ground on June 1st, for the pipeline and its contents to be protected after its built, and for a removal of the disruption and threat of the protestors.


Instead we have a government saying, we'll basically give you money not to build. We've got MP's and MLA's and civic leaders taking part in the protests, by the way that have been emboldened by the Government of BC and Canada refusing to bring actual criminal charges against these people until after the deadline.


As far as Trudeau's statement today, you can read it two ways.


They know because Kinder has told them that they're out, that they are free to negotiate a deal, that's likely going to be extremely expensive because they're twinning Kinder property.


Or they're backdooring Kinder to pressure Kinder, and at that point, I would think that if Kinder goes out, they're going to file a Nafta Lawsuit against BC, and a lawsuit against the Government of Canada over this tactic.


I'm guessing the first to be honest, because not even Trudeau could be stupid enough to stand up on the world stage and back door a major energy investor could he?
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:09 PM   #6003
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I'm not clear on what you're suggesting here.

A) Provinces have more power = B.C., Alberta, etc. all having greater independence to pursue their own interests.

B) Federal government has more power = Feds can rein in B.C., Alberta, etc. when it doesn't like what they're doing.

A would strengthen the hand of B.C. in disputes like this. B would rein in B.C., but also rein in Alberta when they pursue policies the federal government doesn't like (i.e. if a UCP government rolls back the carbon tax) .

Alberta has historically been a strong proponent of A. But A works against Alberta in this case, because we need strong federal power to overcome an intransigent neighbouring province.

So which do you want?

B doesn't work, Quebec dictated that Energy East be killed, the Federal Government has been weak when it comes to BC. That's why I say the current constitution doesn't work. If everything goes by seats, Alberta has very little stroke with the Federal Government who has basically cancelled two pipelines of vital economic interests to this country and are in danger of collapsing a third because they're not willing to enforce the constitution as it stands.


If you give the provinces the ability to negotiate their own trade agreements, it also allows the provinces leverage points points in negotiations and protect their interests if that's what they want to do.


I think at this point, we're certainly not the United States which has definate defined powers over the States and aren't afraid to enforce them. Because Ontario and Quebec pretty much hold power because of seats, maybe its wise to give Alberta and for example Saskatchewan enough provincial powers to protect themselves or get their claims heard and understood.


Other things like pensions and unemployment could be better ministered regionally then nationally in my mind. Encouraging trade, or encouraging provinces to utilize their goods and natural resources, might reduce the need to the current model of equalization.


Basically either the Federal Government needs to be the Federal Government and not act like a regional first government, giving the provinces more power might get around that issue. A confederation of regions with more control, and a Federal Government that really only needs to worry about things like national law enforcement and defense and negotiating international treaties and helping nations with international trade agreements might work better in the long run and make the provinces work together and respect each other more.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:22 PM   #6004
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
This is an issue that I have. It wasnt 6 weeks.

Thats the whole point. It was 6 weeks at the point that KM got tired of playing the 'Let Canada Bicker at Each Other' game.

This has been in development longer than Ken King's half-assed 'Calgary Next' proposal, but the Government are just too weak and stupid to do anything about it.
Without getting into what the government should or shouldn’t be doing right now, KM has been well aware of all the legal implications involved with getting this thing built from day 1. They were well aware of the opposition in BC and that there was a chance for more challenges if a new government took office there.

Quote:
Justin is the best example: "It will be built!"
You’re right, he should be saying “It will get built so long as Kinder Morgan doesn’t decide it’s best to cancel the project all together and try to sue to recoup their losses instead of letting the government cover their losses while continuing to proceed with the project while waiting for the remaining challenges to be thrown out”

Quote:
Even Rachel Notley understands that this pipeline is effectively her party's only chance at maintaining power and even she didnt do anything until it was basically too late.
I wish I could pretend that outcomes could be guaranteed because I want them to be. If any of the actions imposed would have no effect now, the expectation that they would have if they’d been enacted earlier is wishful thinking.

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We have to come to the inevitable conclusion: Canada, Alberta specifically, is not a good place to do business anymore.
What’s bad for one industry, even if it is a very lucrative one, isn’t an indictment on overall investment across all industries in a region. While I’m hopeful this project goes through after all this, even if it doesn’t your comment simply isn’t accurate.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:23 PM   #6005
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Remember when the Liberals were basically high fiving themselves over a Nafta Deal, and Justin was in New York throwing Mexico under the bus while bragging about pretty much having a deal in place. Well as much as we don't like Trump, from the reactions of US trade Negotiators and the President (?) of Mexico, the Liberals have misread this situation


https://twitter.com/statuses/999372120663740416
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