He has finished 4th and 2nd in consecutive tournaments . Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Yeah they had an easier draw, but they still got through and only gave up 2 goals. The fact that Kane has been largely useless makes it even more impressive.
I think the “Kane is useless” narrative is a little off. I mean look at today; Italy isn’t just going to let Kane run wild have a million chances because he’ll score or set a goal up. Obviously, if your playing against him you mark him tightly and probably double him at times. That’s not useless, it’s marked out of the game, but that should create an opening for others. That’s exactly why you want a guy like Grealish in to make a play and distribute the ball though.
The Following User Says Thank You to Slava For This Useful Post:
There are no guarantees in life though, if Southgate managed things better today they could have won. Yeah they have a lot of young talent, but you just never know how it's going to go in the future, they had a chance to win today and his decisions (or lack of decisions in some cases) led to their defeat. Mancini made changes that won his team the game, Southgate did not.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The cowardly repulsivness takes all kinds of forms and lunatics; there's also chatter that Southgate himself is racist, putting on the lads at the end to expressly set them up for PK failure and team failure, and thus get the country to blame the black players, and let the snowball roll from there.
Southgate said he picked the PKers. Watching the game and he had his list right when ET ended. I don’t think he asked who wanted to take the kicks.
And considering he made 2 subs with PKs in mind my guess is he had his 5 coming into the game.
I’m sure Sterling would have stepped up. He looked really frustrated at not taking a kick and seems like the guy who wouldn’t be afraid of the moment. Same with Grealish.
I’m not sure where This narrative about players “stepping up” is coming from. To me it looks pretty clear that these were Southgate’s calls.
Maybe he was worried Sterling would flop instead of kicking the ball
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
He has finished 4th and 2nd in consecutive tournaments . Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Yeah they had an easier draw, but they still got through and only gave up 2 goals. The fact that Kane has been largely useless makes it even more impressive.
The guy is managing arguably the greatest collection of footballers every assembled. Chilwell was the starting left-back for the European club champions this season AND HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE BENCH TODAY.
He had six substitutions at his disposal and only used two until the final minutes of extra time. No excuse. I actually quite like Gareth Southgate but let's be honest here, he made some unforgivable mistakes. This was a squad with no weak links at all. I'm looking at the combined age of Bonucci and Chiellini and wondering why the young attacking players weren't encouraged to run at them.
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to MegaErtz For This Useful Post:
I think what Southgate was thinking is that he has good defenders, and good attackers, but doesn’t really have a great midfield engine.
So the idea is to defend as a team and get everyone behind the ball, and then hope you can hit on the counter and set pieces.
And overall it was effective this tournament. They only conceded 2 goals, up until today had won every game on expected goals, and it got them to the finals.
But IMO they weren’t the right tactics for today, and I say this as an Italian fan who is very happy with the result.
England had the crowd, had the energy, and should have tried to surprise Italy by attacking. They should have really been attacking the Italian backs who were not as good with Spinazzola injured and used their speed to try to get behind the Italian Centerbacks. Instead they tried to sit back and set up very negative.
Once Italy settled into the game they were happy to play this game even being down 1-0. Bonucci, Cheillini, Verratti, and Jorginho were happy to control the ball and just have England chase them around. The domination of the ball started to open up space for Chiesa and Insigne, and it did just feel like a matter of time for Italy.
Funny how it works sometimes in sports. The England golden generation had some of the greatest midfield talent in the world but were lacking in other areas at times. This team has the attackers and the defenders, but would kill for a Gerrard, Lampard, or Scholes.
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
We do have the midfield pieces though, but really only one of them can progress the ball forward from a deeper position, and its Jude Bellingham, but he plays in germany, so he may as well not be on the team
The cowardly repulsivness takes all kinds of forms and lunatics; there's also chatter that Southgate himself is racist, putting on the lads at the end to expressly set them up for PK failure and team failure, and thus get the country to blame the black players, and let the snowball roll from there.
I honestly don't know sweet all about soccer, but wow does this seem like a stretch. Had they all scored they would be heroes and then Southgates racism would have backfired.
Or are you claiming that this was Southgate hedging his bets? If the black players don't score, racist snowball (as you said). If they do score, he's a national hero.
Weird claim I'd love to read more about if you have any articles I could check out
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
We do have the midfield pieces though, but really only one of them can progress the ball forward from a deeper position, and its Jude Bellingham, but he plays in germany, so he may as well not be on the team
I think they lack that true central midfielder.
Rice and Phillips were good in a holding role.
Foden, Mount, and Grealish are good in more attacking roles.
But a guy like Gerrard or Scholes who can win a ball and make a pass is missing. They are lacking a box to box midfielder.
I don’t think they have anybody like Jorginho, Verratti, Barella (who wasn’t his best today) or Locatelli. Those guys can all pick up the ball in their own box and make plays box to box.
Honestly it will be interesting to see this English team at the World Cup. They honestly have one of the deepest and most talented rosters in the world right now. If set up right they should win some hardware here.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 07-12-2021 at 12:48 AM.
I think what Southgate was thinking is that he has good defenders, and good attackers, but doesn’t really have a great midfield engine.
So the idea is to defend as a team and get everyone behind the ball, and then hope you can hit on the counter and set pieces.
And overall it was effective this tournament. They only conceded 2 goals, up until today had won every game on expected goals, and it got them to the finals.
But IMO they weren’t the right tactics for today, and I say this as an Italian fan who is very happy with the result.
England had the crowd, had the energy, and should have tried to surprise Italy by attacking. They should have really been attacking the Italian backs who were not as good with Spinazzola injured and used their speed to try to get behind the Italian Centerbacks. Instead they tried to sit back and set up very negative.
Once Italy settled into the game they were happy to play this game even being down 1-0. Bonucci, Cheillini, Verratti, and Jorginho were happy to control the ball and just have England chase them around. The domination of the ball started to open up space for Chiesa and Insigne, and it did just feel like a matter of time for Italy.
Funny how it works sometimes in sports. The England golden generation had some of the greatest midfield talent in the world but were lacking in other areas at times. This team has the attackers and the defenders, but would kill for a Gerrard, Lampard, or Scholes.
When Chiellini horse collared Saka at the end of regulation that should have been the time go. Make your subs, get the kids on and run at those old legs on yellow calls. Italy were gassed and took all their forwards off. Sterling, Phillips and Mount should have been replaced at 90' by Grealush, Sancho and Rashford. Foden wasn't even on the bench?
Bringing on cold players for penalties is so dumb. Italy's last two subs Locatelli and Florenzi did not take penalties.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Thinking about it a bit more, it is eerie how similar England's loss last night was to the loss to Croatia in 2018. Get an early goal, dominate the first third of the game, but don't do enough with it, let the more experienced team grow into the game, become too timid and conservative with the ball, don't make any adjustments until it's too late. That's what would worry me about Southgate going forward is he didn't appear to learn from Croatia loss. Will he learn now that he's had a second lesson imparted, or is it too hard for him to overcome his nature?
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The guy is managing arguably the greatest collection of footballers every assembled. Chilwell was the starting left-back for the European club champions this season AND HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE BENCH TODAY.
He had six substitutions at his disposal and only used two until the final minutes of extra time. No excuse. I actually quite like Gareth Southgate but let's be honest here, he made some unforgivable mistakes. This was a squad with no weak links at all. I'm looking at the combined age of Bonucci and Chiellini and wondering why the young attacking players weren't encouraged to run at them.
Is this serious? And people are liking it? I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. They are a solid young team that is arguably a top 3 team in Europe and they finished second. If they go all attack, I think they get stuffed by Italy. I agree with the subs, should have used them more, and I hate bringing on guys for the last 2 minutes to take a penalty. Have guys who have a feel for the game taking them. But at the end of the day the guy was a couple penalties away from winning.
I can totally get behind saying he made some mistakes, but there have been some crazy takes about him on here.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cheevers For This Useful Post:
Is this serious? And people are liking it? I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. They are a solid young team that is arguably a top 3 team in Europe and they finished second. If they go all attack, I think they get stuffed by Italy. I agree with the subs, should have used them more, and I hate bringing on guys for the last 2 minutes to take a penalty. Have guys who have a feel for the game taking them. But at the end of the day the guy was a couple penalties away from winning.
I can totally get behind saying he made some mistakes, but there have been some crazy takes about him on here.
I am struggling to think of a deeper team in modern history than this England side.
Even France in and Belgium from about 2016 to 2020 weren't as deep.
Regardless of whether they are the "greatest collection of footballers every assembled", the actual point is that Southgate played not to lose in this tournament more than he played to win. He coached reactively instead of proactively. That it almost worked doesn't necessarily mean it was a great strategy for the players at his disposal, because in the end being too negative and ceding the initiative to Italy was what allowed them to win the game.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I'm also surprised that (footage shows) Southgate had a list and was telling the players the order before the shootout. Imagine 19 year old Saka sitting there knowing he'll have the responsibility of the 5th penalty before the thing even starts. He's probably thinking negatively, hoping it doesn't get to him.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
I'm also surprised that (footage shows) Southgate had a list and was telling the players the order before the shootout. Imagine 19 year old Saka sitting there knowing he'll have the responsibility of the 5th penalty before the thing even starts. He's probably thinking negatively, hoping it doesn't get to him.
Yeah, what was with that? I dont think I've ever seen a player subbed on with a list before.
Southgate knows he gets a few minutes to talk to his players before the kicks start right? He's kind of been through this before.
He doesnt have to send his subs on with his Subway sandwich order.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. Yeah they had an easier draw, but they still got through and only gave up 2 goals. The fact that Kane has been largely useless makes it even more impressive.
