NHL Expansion: The Toronto Legacy Aces

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its an interesting idea, but a terrible name.

I'm kind of looking at the recent MLS run of LAFC, having an new team of upstarts upsetting the established order was a great story this season.

Is it sustainable in Toronto though? I doubt it.

Lopez: Gary, here is our proposal for an expansion team in Toronto
Gary: Looks great! It all checks out. But, no.
Lopez: Why?
Gary: You can't come up with a good name, you can't have a team.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Agreed. Now London is another kettle of fish although Budweiser Gardens would need an upgrade.

An arena should be built in Woodstock - midway between London and K-W. Lots of people in that area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Ontario
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...res_in_Ontario

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by troutman

An arena should be built in Woodstock - midway between London and K-W. Lots of people in that area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Ontario
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...res_in_Ontario

That makes zero sense. No public transit. Every single patron has to drive 20-50 highway kms - that will mix well with beer sales.

[bizaro86]

I think the only way Toronto gets a second team is if the league agrees to let MLSE buy one. They already have a perfectly good arena, and they could pay Buffalo $100 MM to keep quiet. Add $450 MM to buy a crappy low-attendance team and pay the league a $200 MM bribe relocation fee. Thats $750 MM total and MLSE would have a new asset worth over a billion. Could keep their existing arena totally full, and they'd have a cheaper entry level product to sell to overflow fans.

I'm honestly surprised the NHLPA isn't pushing for this. Moving a team like Carolina/Florida/Arizona etc to Toronto would probably double its revenue, and they get half. It also makes sense to do it before the next Canadian TV deal. Adding another Toronto team probably increases the Canadian national TV deal, and subtracting a crappy sunbelt US team doesn't move the needle in the US at all.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by troutman

An arena should be built in Woodstock - midway between London and K-W. Lots of people in that area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Ontario
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...res_in_Ontario

The Senators have a hard time convincing people to drive to an arena that's 20km from downtown. You want someone to build an arena that's 50km from any major population centre (and even those centres aren't that big)?

[zukes]

Originally Posted by troutman

An arena should be built in Woodstock - midway between London and K-W. Lots of people in that area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Ontario
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...res_in_Ontario

Anywhere further from Toronto than KW and you lose all but the very hardcore fans from the GTA. Oakville and Burlington may work. Milton, Kitchener and Hamilton are all not on the regular Go Train service so I have my doubts.

If you put a team in London or greater KW area you have a population of about 1.5 million (excluding places like Milton, Halton Hills etc. which may make the trek) and would probably need to play games in both places somehow. You would need two brand new (or heavily renovated) arenas.
There would need to be some sort of transportation offer likely to allow KW fans better access to London and vise-versa, though the 401 does get less busy once you hit KW and headed to London.

edit: good point above on the beer sales, so yeah, would definitely need some sort of transit between the two markets. Either way, very unlikely to happen. Many US fans can barely find Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa and Edmonton on a map and you want them to know where KW/London is? I always have to explain that it is two hours from Detroit/Buffalo and Toronto.

[Resolute 14]

Alternate headline: Attention whore whores for attention.

And that alone means the NHL won't waste much time thinking about him or his proposal. They don't negotiate these things through the media.

[FanIn80]

If we’re talking expansion, then you’d think they’d finally put an NHL team in Edmonton before anywhere else.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That makes zero sense. No public transit. Every single patron has to drive 20-50 highway kms - that will mix well with beer sales.

Fair point.

Woodstock is on the 401, about 55 km from both London and K-W. A high speed train is planned from Toronto to Windsor, but not until 2030.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalne...peed-rail/amp/

IIRC, Balsillie bought land there for this possibility. Edit - may have been Cambridge.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by troutman

Fair point.

Woodstock is on the 401, about 55 km from both London and K-W. A high speed train is planned from Toronto to Windsor, but not until 2030.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalne...peed-rail/amp/

IIRC, Balsillie bought land there for this possibility. Edit - may have been Cambridge.

Cambridge makes more sense, at least it’s has immediate neighbours. Woodstock is in the middle of no where.

[Barnet Flame]

The best thing about this happening is we can have another Toronto Saturday night circle jerk for the 2nd HNIC game!!!

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I think the only way Toronto gets a second team is if the league agrees to let MLSE buy one. They already have a perfectly good arena, and they could pay Buffalo $100 MM to keep quiet. Add $450 MM to buy a crappy low-attendance team and pay the league a $200 MM bribe relocation fee. Thats $750 MM total and MLSE would have a new asset worth over a billion. Could keep their existing arena totally full, and they'd have a cheaper entry level product to sell to overflow fans.

I'm honestly surprised the NHLPA isn't pushing for this. Moving a team like Carolina/Florida/Arizona etc to Toronto would probably double its revenue, and they get half. It also makes sense to do it before the next Canadian TV deal. Adding another Toronto team probably increases the Canadian national TV deal, and subtracting a crappy sunbelt US team doesn't move the needle in the US at all.

If it was that easy we would have a team here in Quebec city by now.

Lots of people here have made attempts at buying low attendance teams and it never works.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

If it was that easy we would have a team here in Quebec city by now.

Lots of people here have made attempts at buying low attendance teams and it never works.

Quebec doesn't have a team because the market is too small. The NHL wants teams in Arizona and the sunbelt because they need representation in those regions for US TV deals. As long as the league is doing fine financially it's likely we never see the Panthers or Coyotes move because attendance is only part of the equation in professional sports.

[Lil Pedro]

This would be the LA Chargers NHL style...a team with no true home fans and an organization that would always be second fiddle to the Leafs.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

This would be the LA Chargers NHL style...a team with no true home fans and an organization that would always be second fiddle to the Leafs.

Second fiddle in the GTA would still be a top 10 revenue team in the league.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I'd rather see the Nordiques back before a second Toronto team.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Quebec doesn't have a team because the market is too small. The NHL wants teams in Arizona and the sunbelt because they need representation in those regions for US TV deals. As long as the league is doing fine financially it's likely we never see the Panthers or Coyotes move because attendance is only part of the equation in professional sports.

While Quebec is a smaller market, and our economy is not the best I would be willing to wager that Quebec City would still rake in more money than any of Carolina, Florida, Arizona.

This is a hockey city, and the arena would sell out quite often.

Also, the Canadian market is still where it is at for the TV deal, which would only bolster it even further.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Second fiddle in the GTA would still be a top 10 revenue team in the league.

How?
Their ticket prices would have to be in the lower end of the NHL average to draw. Their local TV rights have no value as they would be beholding to the Laffs. Radio rights are worthless.

If they play out of Scotiabank arena then
-The suite license fees go to MLSE, so they only get ticket revenue on that.

-No arena naming revenue.
-Seat license fees go to MLSE.
-Concession sales go to MLSE.

This is a Maple Leafs town going on FIVE generations.

The population is here. The money is here. The hockey fan here is not interested in another team.

I think the only reason Bettman doesn't outright say that the NHL is done expanding is to keep franchise values up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

This would be the LA Chargers NHL style...a team with no true home fans and an organization that would always be second fiddle to the Leafs.

Wouldn't it be more like the Clippers? Especially if a "same arena" deal could be worked out.

[Split98]

Nordiques could mean revenue, which could lead to them chilling the hell out for a minute

So I'll vote for Nordiques first