Critical Amber Alert

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I know the government isn't mandating that I have a phone. As a parent and business owner, though, I can't operate my life without one, so if your solution is that I don't carry a phone versus being able to opt out of messaging I don't want, I don't think you're offering practical/realistic/empathetic advice. Having a phone makes my nervous kid much braver knowing she can call me at any time. I don't want to take that lifeline away from her - I just want to disable incoming messages that she finds scary.

If we’re talking about practicality and empathy, I don’t think giving your kid a phone and not highlighting any dangers or aspects of it that should be concerning is a very practical solution to increasing a kid’s bravery.

Does your kid know how a fire alarm works? Does she know there are actions to take even if she doesn’t see a fire? Or do you protect her from that?

If you desperately don’t want Amber Alerts, but desperately need a phone (as does your daughter) why not switch to a 3G phone? There are options available that still only run on 3G, and for your daughter I assume they would be MORE than enough. And if being woken up in the middle of the night is not good for your mental health, turn your phone off. Simple. Solved.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If we’re talking about practicality and empathy, I don’t think giving your kid a phone and not highlighting any dangers or aspects of it that should be concerning is a very practical solution to increasing a kid’s bravery.

Does your kid know how a fire alarm works? Does she know there are actions to take even if she doesn’t see a fire? Or do you protect her from that?

If you desperately don’t want Amber Alerts, but desperately need a phone (as does your daughter) why not switch to a 3G phone? There are options available that still only run on 3G, and for your daughter I assume they would be MORE than enough. And if being woken up in the middle of the night is not good for your mental health, turn your phone off. Simple. Solved.

OMFG. If I turn my phone off and the alarm at my business goes off, there is nobody else to call. I'm it. That's small business ownership. If my mom - who is in her 70s and lives alone - needs help, I'm it. That's being her only living kid and her only family member in Calgary.

As for my daughter, I don't want to put her business up on CP for all to read, but you can't just take a tough love approach with an anxious kid and say, "the world's a tough place, honey. abductions, fires, murders...suck it up." It's much more complicated and there is a perpetually elusive balance we try to find of not insulating her too much from the world while trying to protect her from things that needlessly amp up her anxiety. There is no upside to her receiving Amber Alerts on her phone, but there is a tangible downside.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

OMFG. If I turn my phone off and the alarm at my business goes off, there is nobody else to call. I'm it. That's small business ownership. If my mom - who is in her 70s and lives alone - needs help, I'm it. That's being her only living kid and her only family member in Calgary.

As for my daughter, I don't want to put her business up on CP for all to read, but you can't just take a tough love approach with an anxious kid and say, "the world's a tough place, honey. abductions, fires, murders...suck it up." It's much more complicated and there is a perpetually elusive balance we try to find of not insulating her too much from the world while trying to protect her from things that needlessly amp up her anxiety. There is no upside to her receiving Amber Alerts on her phone, but there is a tangible downside.

Pft. Your real life situations don’t change the fact that you can’t question the Amber Alerts. Ever!

[Wormius]

Put on your empathy hat and try to imagine what the the person desperately trying to find out where their loved ones are is feeling.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

why should anyone care about a different type of sound/notice for a civilization ending meteorite or nuclear strike? If life as we know it is coming to an end, I don't think that the extra 15 minutes of notice is going to do anyone much good.

not if we're talking a different notification for a realistic regional emergency, like forest fires or flooding that requires evacuation. there is a discussion to be had there.


We're just over 5 months into the year and I believe I've had two alerts come through my phone. only one of which woke me up. it's not enough of an issue for me to worry too much about changing it.

and as for Kim Mitchell, I like Lager & Ale era Kim Mitchell, or Max Webster.

I was in hawaii when the fake ICBM warning came in. The alarm woke me up. I looked outside to my beautiful view of the ocean and went back to bed. If North Korea was dumb enough to ask the USA to turn the northern part of that peninsula into a glass parking lot, then i'd rather get vaporized in bed instead of in a concrete cellar

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Put on your empathy hat and try to imagine what the the person desperately trying to find out where their loved ones are is feeling.

I know, Wormius. I'm available 16 hours/day to help. If I see something suspicious while I'm awake I'll even call it in without needing a text message to ask me to intervene. The probability of me being able to help is so low in the middle of the night, though, that I'd rather not be disturbed. I appreciate that some people don't mind being awoken with these alerts. That's great. The more people that look at an Amber Alert the better. During the night, I'd rather not be one of them.

I'm willing to help in other ways. Maybe donate some money to Missing Persons or something. I'm not completely bowing out of responsibility for helping my fellow Albertans. I get crappy enough sleeps every night, that I don't need another thing waking me up. And my daughter has the propensity to get overwhelmed with worries already that she doesn't need more. The chances of a little grade seven kid sitting in her classroom in the 'burbs having the missing key to solve an abduction in progress is so low that we don't need to be burdening her with this kind of thing.

[White Out 403]

I feel like me and sliver are on another planet on this. Are we really this wrong or has CP become this politically correct we can't question and offer compromises on this?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sliver

OMFG. If I turn my phone off and the alarm at my business goes off, there is nobody else to call. I'm it. That's small business ownership. If my mom - who is in her 70s and lives alone - needs help, I'm it. That's being her only living kid and her only family member in Calgary.

Right, and the Amber Alert is as important as those things (maybe more, on a morality scale) so... what’s the issue? You can’t turn your phone off because there might be an emergency. Seems like you’re all good.

Originally Posted by Sliver

As for my daughter, I don't want to put her business up on CP for all to read, but you can't just take a tough love approach with an anxious kid and say, "the world's a tough place, honey. abductions, fires, murders...suck it up." It's much more complicated and there is a perpetually elusive balance we try to find of not insulating her too much from the world while trying to protect her from things that needlessly amp up her anxiety. There is no upside to her receiving Amber Alerts on her phone, but there is a tangible downside.

There’s probably some nuance between not talking about any danger and “the world is dangerous! Suck it up!” Again, just get her a 3G phone. That should be sufficient for any kid. And that’s a solution will come a whole lot sooner than changing the whole system (and since it seems like a concern that needs to be immediately addressed, you should go that route) AND it has no tangible downsides for the population at large or you and your daughter.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I feel like me and sliver are on another planet on this. Are we really this wrong or has CP become this politically correct we can't question and offer compromises on this?

What does political correctness have to do with this?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Pft. Your real life situations don’t change the fact that you can’t question the Amber Alerts. Ever!

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I feel like me and sliver are on another planet on this. Are we really this wrong or has CP become this politically correct we can't question and offer compromises on this?

It just seems like a lot of you don’t understand that there are personal solutions you can take that doesn’t negatively impact the whole system. Allowing for people to turn off the alerts negatively impacts the whole system, period, so use one of the many solutions you have at your disposal that doesn’t. Simple.

If it’s not your job to help with amber alerts, it’s not society’s job to help your personal problems. It’s kind of a catch 22.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

it’s not society’s job to help your personal problems.

Like the abduction of your child??

I understand the importance, and I respect it. In fact, I’m trying to make them work on my phone.

However, I completely understand that there are people who want to opt out of this for their own reasons, and see no reason to ridicule them over it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Right, and the Amber Alert is as important as those things (maybe more, on a morality scale) so... what’s the issue? You can’t turn your phone off because there might be an emergency. Seems like you’re all good.

There’s probably some nuance between not talking about any danger and “the world is dangerous! Suck it up!” Again, just get her a 3G phone. That should be sufficient for any kid. And that’s a solution will come a whole lot sooner than changing the whole system (and since it seems like a concern that needs to be immediately addressed, you should go that route) AND it has no tangible downsides for the population at large or you and your daughter.

TBH, I didn't know going to a 3G phone would accomplish what I'm looking for it to do for her. She has an iPhone SE. I wonder if I can adjust a setting in that to disable the alerts. I'll check it out. Thanks.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What does political correctness have to do with this?

I feel like it's the safe thing to say and politically correct to scoff: "Think of the children" or "its for the greater good, dont be selfish"

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by Sliver

TBH, I didn't know going to a 3G phone would accomplish what I'm looking for it to do for her. She has an iPhone SE. I wonder if I can adjust a setting in that to disable the alerts. I'll check it out. Thanks.

On mine (iPhoneX) you go settings > Cellular > Cellular data options > Enable LTE >off that enables 3G only.
But for me it's just easier to turn off cellular data at night, it's on the same screen as dnd.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sliver

TBH, I didn't know going to a 3G phone would accomplish what I'm looking for it to do for her. She has an iPhone SE. I wonder if I can adjust a setting in that to disable the alerts. I'll check it out. Thanks.

Yeah, I don’t know for sure if disabling LTE works (the system could override that in theory, since it’s an LTE capable phone, but I have no idea) but it’s worth a try.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

OMFG. If I turn my phone off and the alarm at my business goes off, there is nobody else to call. I'm it. That's small business ownership.

And yet, that's not true. I can't count the number of times a business alarm has gone off, police have attended and dealt with the situation. (be it a false alarm or legit B&E) and then we get a call around 6-9am from the business owner stating "Oh, sorry, I was asleep and my phone was off." But it was OK, because police dealt with it for you. We checked, and it was either a false alarm and we (re)secured the premises, or it was a legit B&E and we've sat someone on it until a staff member showed up or we were able to secure the premises. This happens on a very frequent basis, and probably 4-5 times the number of times we're able to get a hold of ANY keyholder in the middle of the night (who generally grumpily tells us they'll deal with it in the morning anyhow, thanks for calling).

If my mom - who is in her 70s and lives alone - needs help, I'm it. That's being her only living kid and her only family member in Calgary.

Again, not true. I assume that your mom has a phone that she can use to summon you if she needs help? Well, she can just as easily, if not even more easily, call emergency services, with the bonus that she's not waking us up. While it's more common for my EMS/CFD collegues to get them, I've taken quite a few calls from elderly people who felt a need for something (a noise woke them, they weren't feeling well, but wasn't sure it was a 911/ambulance thing, etc) and they have been provided that (a visit by the police or ambulance, talked to them for a while, etc) I've personally been told, dozens of times, a variation of "Thank you, I didn't want to be a bother to my family", to which I always reply "We're here for you (ma'am, sir)".

You are not the be all and end all. You do not have to (and you don't) go through life in North America as an island unto yourself. There are a lot of backups, helping hands, and extra eyes helping you do your thing.

Occasionally, they ask something of you a bit more than 'the usual (like taxes)' in return, too.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I feel like it's the safe thing to say and politically correct to scoff: "Think of the children" or "its for the greater good, dont be selfish"

OK but neither of those are what political correctness is.
I just find people trot that out willy nilly.
Moving on...

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Like the abduction of your child?

Changing the meaning of the sentence by purposely cutting it in half is a pretty half-assed way to make a point.

Again, if you don't owe society the effort involved in having alerts go through on your phone, nobody owes you the effort of ensuring they don't. That's your job. Change your phone. Disable LTE and see if that works. Turn your phone off. Etc, etc, etc.

I don't know how to make it clearer. Don't want to participate? Don't, but don't ask us to participate in helping you opt out then. Just figure it out yourself.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

And yet, that's not true. I can't count the number of times a business alarm has gone off, police have attended and dealt with the situation. (be it a false alarm or legit B&E) and then we get a call around 6-9am from the business owner stating "Oh, sorry, I was asleep and my phone was off." But it was OK, because police dealt with it for you. We checked, and it was either a false alarm and we (re)secured the premises, or it was a legit B&E and we've sat someone on it until a staff member showed up or we were able to secure the premises. This happens on a very frequent basis, and probably 4-5 times the number of times we're able to get a hold of ANY keyholder in the middle of the night (who generally grumpily tells us they'll deal with it in the morning anyhow, thanks for calling).

Again, not true. I assume that your mom has a phone that she can use to summon you if she needs help? Well, she can just as easily, if not even more easily, call emergency services, with the bonus that she's not waking us up. While it's more common for my EMS/CFD collegues to get them, I've taken quite a few calls from elderly people who felt a need for something (a noise woke them, they weren't feeling well, but wasn't sure it was a 911/ambulance thing, etc) and they have been provided that (a visit by the police or ambulance, talked to them for a while, etc) I've personally been told, dozens of times, a variation of "Thank you, I didn't want to be a bother to my family", to which I always reply "We're here for you (ma'am, sir)".

You are not the be all and end all. You do not have to (and you don't) go through life in North America as an island unto yourself. There are a lot of backups, helping hands, and extra eyes helping you do your thing.

Occasionally, they ask something of you a bit more than 'the usual (like taxes)' in return, too.

Yes, well I like to take a little more responsibility for my obligations than letting emergency services tend to my stuff. You really think it's good advice to say let the cops watch my storefront from 11:30 p.m. until somebody shows up at 7 a.m.? I have come in for a middle-of-the-night break-in. The police didn't seem interested in spending any more time at my shop than the bare minimum, which is reasonable to me.

If my mom were to have an issue, we also realize 911 is available. I can promise you she'd want me there, too, and I'd want to be there.

So instead of being able to disable Amber Alerts on my phone, which has the likelihood of affecting nobody, your suggestion is to turn off my phone and let multiple other people take care of things that I'm happy and willing to do myself.

Yeah, I know the City doesn't recommend what you're proposing. Here is the list of fines I'd have to pay if I were to let CPS respond to my alarm in the event of a false alarm.

[jayswin]

More to the point of Sliver's gripe since many on the annoyed by amber alerts side of the debate want solutions brought forth.

Would it be at all feasible to have amber alerts not reach the phones of kids? Like if your phone for your kids is registered that way with your provider then the government disables amber alerts to that phone?