Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[FlamesAddiction]

Anti-Semitism existed before the Schism and in all Christian denominations. The Catholic Church is viewed by some as the heir to the original Universal Church, but Orthodox and Puritan sects would disagree. The Catholic Church is the most influential in Europe and globally, so it is easy to see why it might seem like they are responsible, but it is an overly simplistic view.

The anti-Semitism that ruled pre-WW2 Europe was rooted in myths and legends that date back to the Muslim enslavement of Christians that start with Al Andalus and the Ottoman conquests where Jews were viewed as collaborators. It led to massive distrust of Jewish communities and the rapidly growing Jewish merchant class in Europe that some saw as directly profiting from the slave trade. Over several generations, those stories became like a sick game of "telephone" where Jews became responsible for every hardship faced in "Christian Europe".

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the church INVENTED antisemitism. The accusation is about complicity. And there are many good examples of it. As noted in the video above, it was Church doctrine that the Jews were responsible for deicide until 1964.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the church INVENTED antisemitism. The accusation is about complicity. And there are many good examples of it. As noted in the video above, it was Church doctrine that the Jews were responsible for deicide until 1964.

Ok, but that church doctrine has very little to do with Nazism. Nazism was far more influenced by the secular notions of the day that were concerned with the social, cultural, economic, and the pseudo-scientific theories of racial evolution and genetics that permeated through. Deicide was far from the top of the list. Blaming religion for everything is a cop out for the rest of society to admit non-religious elements played just as big of a role, whether it be the Holocaust or residential schools. I guess it must be nice to absolve ones self of the inherited shame by compartmentalizing the guilt.

You see this all over the world. The Israel-Palestine situation, terrorism in former colonies (ME and Africa), etc... have non-religious roots, but for the intellectually lazy, it's easy to just blame religion.

Even things in history that seemed obviously about religion, like the Crusades, were at least as much about trade routes, resources, military alliances, and realm expansion, as they were about religion.

[afc wimbledon]

whilst I would agree that the Catholic church worked hand in hand with the secular regimes to maintain power and become richer it was Church rules around usury that created the conditions that kept Jews apart and hated, and from Constantine onwards, long before Mohamed the church hated Jews, the Council of Nicea described them as an 'Odious people'
By 339 AD conversion to Judaism was illegal, by the 370's the Church was actively destroying synagogues

Our whole western history of persecuting Jews flowed out of the early churches teachings, it's not coincidence that Germany like France developed virulent anti semitism in the 19th century that led to Hitler rather than virulent anti methodism or anti coptic thought.

When a predominantly Christian country decides to slaughter another religion it is all about religion

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Deicide was far from the top of the list. Blaming religion for everything is a cop out for the rest of society to admit non-religious elements played just as big of a role, whether it be the Holocaust or residential schools.

No one's denying this, though. You can debate how much influence the religious elements had over social movements like the Nazis' scapegoating of Jews, provided that you understand that it did have some influence, and that the influence was significant. If you don't think, for example, that consistent preaching from the pulpit that the Jews killed Christ in German Churches softened the ground to make the holocaust much easier to perpetrate than it otherwise would be, I'm going to have to disagree with you in the strongest possible terms.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

When a predominantly Christian country decides to slaughter another religion it is all about religion

This happens when any predominantly religious country decides to slaughter another religion. It's playing out in multiple sites across the globe at this very moment.

[81MC]

Yeah, it’s not like holy wars a construct of Catholicism. People have lived and died under religious banners forever.

[karl262]

I just read that the Catholic school board has conducted an online poll among stakeholders and found 79% were in favour of a name change for Bishop Grandin High School.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ma...name-1.5467302

I'm not sure if I like their direction for a new name as it seems like it's just going down the same road of honoring another ethically flawed historical figure. I understand they want to show their appreciation for a person that made the deal to let them be in charge of an entire nation's education system simply for getting out of the way and letting him form a government but just feels rather tone deaf. Especially considering the times.

Adolf Hitler Memorial High School?

Come on Catholic Church, you can do better although I can't say I'm entirely surprised. This is not a good name for a Calgary high school.

[Roughneck]

Name schools after artifacts instead.



Holy Grail High
Ark of the Covenant Junior High
The head of John the Baptist Elementary

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by karl262

I just read that the Catholic school board has conducted an online poll among stakeholders and found 79% were in favour of a name change for Bishop Grandin High School.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ma...name-1.5467302

I'm not sure if I like their direction for a new name as it seems like it's just going down the same road of honoring another ethically flawed historical figure. I understand they want to show their appreciation for a person that made the deal to let them be in charge of an entire nation's education system simply for getting out of the way and letting him form a government but just feels rather tone deaf. Especially considering the times.

Adolf Hitler Memorial High School?

Come on Catholic Church, you can do better although I can't say I'm entirely surprised. This is not a good name for a Calgary high school.

What are you talking about? What direction are they going in that you don't like? The only other school names listed in the article are that Langevin School will revert to its previous name of Riverside School.

Maybe the article was edited since you posted it but there was no indication what direction the school Bishop Grandin is going to go in.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Name schools after artifacts instead.

Holy Grail High
Ark of the Covenant Junior High
The head of John the Baptist Elementary

I am in favour of this as long as the sports teams names and logos reflect the changes.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I am in favour of this as long as the sports teams names and logos reflect the changes.

All walls at the Holy Grail school must have murals done in the style of Terry Gilliam.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Name schools after artifacts instead.



Holy Grail High
Ark of the Covenant Junior High
The head of John the Baptist Elementary

Reserving Jesus's Foreskin for the Head Office?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Name schools after artifacts instead.



Holy Grail High
Ark of the Covenant Junior High
The head of John the Baptist Elementary

Lets let company's pay for naming rights to help pay for education, Scotiabank High, BMO Junior high and Rexall for the mentally challenged.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Reserving Jesus's Foreskin for the Head Office?

Jesus' Foreskin University has a good ring to it.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Reaper

What are you talking about? What direction are they going in that you don't like? The only other school names listed in the article are that Langevin School will revert to its previous name of Riverside School.



Maybe the article was edited since you posted it but there was no indication what direction the school Bishop Grandin is going to go in.

Everything I said after the link was in jest. I'll break it down:

The guy I was talking about that the Catholic Church might show appreciation for is Hitler, as the first treaty the Nazi party signed was with the Catholic centrist party. The deal was the Nazi party would have a clear path to victory in forming government because the Catholics would just get out of the way and not run in the last election Germany would have until after the war. What did the Catholics want in return for giving Hitler power? Control over the education system. My source on this is the intelligence squared debate on whether or not the Catholic Church is a force for good, some clips have been posted in this thread. Another thing I learned from that same debate was that Hitlers birthday was celebrated from the pulpits of the German Catholic Church up until his death. Thats after the general population had learned the full extent of what they had let happen. Imagine being a devout catholic in Germany 1945, trying to find some sort of salvation for what your nation had just committed and all the guilt and shock associated with that. Also your country is in ruins and millions are dead. So you go to church. What do you hear from the priest on Hitlers birthday in early 1945? Happy Birthday! Time to pass the collection plate!
They did this from 1933 to 1945. That is how tone deaf the church is.

So the joke is that the Catholic Church would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to recognize the folly of having a high school named after one of the architects of Canada's genocide, only to name it after the architect of another genocide because they used to work well together and they're so completely tone deaf.

The way the bishop of Toronto dances around not accepting responsibility because the church is legally organized in a certain way and it's complicated and I can't make the other legal entity over there do anything is not even worth listening to. Everyones in charge and no one's in charge at the same time so they're paralyzed by themselves. Are they waiting for an engraved order from the pope or something?

[activeStick]

Pretty neat little story.

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/c...dren-1.5467689

[Engine09]

A good start:

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/new...on-six-nations

https://theturtleislandnews.com/inde...n-six-nations/

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

What's a good start? Arson?

Arson of a Church belonging to a different denomination than the one you're upset at, too, but more importantly... we're cheerleading for arson now?

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by karl262

I just read that the Catholic school board has conducted an online poll among stakeholders and found 79% were in favour of a name change for Bishop Grandin High School.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ma...name-1.5467302

I'm not sure if I like their direction for a new name as it seems like it's just going down the same road of honoring another ethically flawed historical figure. I understand they want to show their appreciation for a person that made the deal to let them be in charge of an entire nation's education system simply for getting out of the way and letting him form a government but just feels rather tone deaf. Especially considering the times.

Adolf Hitler Memorial High School?

Come on Catholic Church, you can do better although I can't say I'm entirely surprised. This is not a good name for a Calgary high school.

So they need a poll to decide if something is right or wrong? I thought this was a religious organization that follows the word of God?
Certainly you don't need a poll to acknowledge something is inappropriate, wouldn't want to offend a bunch of people by changing a name