Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Just going to cross-post this here:

Poor Sam Bennett needs to make something happen in his own right. The fact he can hardly ever get a dangerous shot off or create anything himself is a testament to how much better of a player Lindholm is right now.

Tired of excuses that never end for what was a lottery pick and supposed franchise player. He's got a new coach and new chance to turn his career around so I'm willing to give him some more time here. If it's the same story 25 games into next season, it's time to start packing the cannon and fire him out of town.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Just going to cross-post this here:

Lindholm: 9 Minors
Bennett: 27 Minors

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The elite players did fine under Gulutzan.
It was the scrubs who didn't perform.
Which makes sense, I suppose. Talent is more likely to still produce in a crap system.

Beware coaches selling systems. You wouldn't buy a car from a guy who only talks about the stereo.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Just going to cross-post this here:

Not that I disagree with your point (I think we would be crazy to give up on Bennett before playing him with true top 6 talent) but I have 74 5v5 points for Elias Lindholm over the last three seasons.

Lindholm seems to produce really well at 4v4, and 3v3 as well.

Last 3 seasons:

Lindholm: 86 ES Points (74 5V5), 36 PP, 6 SHP (128 points - 0.54 PPG)

Bennett: 72 ES Points (70 5V5), 15 PPP, 1 SHP (88 points - 0.37 PPG)

So interesting that the biggest difference in each players point production is special teams, and what is likely to be more overtime ice time.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Beware coaches selling systems. You wouldn't buy a car from a guy who only talks about the stereo.

This analogy makes more kinds of no sense than anything I have read on CP for some time. Putting in the system is a major part of the coach's job, and the system is integral to making the team function.

The hockey equivalent of a car stereo would be stuff like the Jumbotron, organ, and PA system.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The elite players did fine under Gulutzan.
It was the scrubs who didn't perform.
Which makes sense, I suppose. Talent is more likely to still produce in a crap system.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

This analogy makes more kinds of no sense than anything I have read on CP for some time. Putting in the system is a major part of the coach's job, and the system is integral to making the team function.

The hockey equivalent of a car stereo would be stuff like the Jumbotron, organ, and PA system.

I'm saying the system is probably the least important aspect of being a coach. You have to be a leader, a motivator, a tactician. You have to be able to adjust on the fly. The fundamentals of hockey are always the same.

Keep the play away from the middle of the ice in your own zone. Take the puck to the middle of the ice in the offensive zone. Defend your area, turn pucks over, counter attack.

Mike Babcock isn't a great coach because of his system. It shouldn't take half a season to learn a system. The system should be seen and not heard. If the system is being spoken of, the system sucks.

Bill Peters may be a fraud for all I know, but when he does speak, he's talking about hockey and players. Not systems. I like that.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not that I disagree with your point (I think we would be crazy to give up on Bennett before playing him with true top 6 talent) but I have 74 5v5 points for Elias Lindholm over the last three seasons.

I looked it up again, and you're correct - it looks like I had accidentally taken Lindholm's primary points.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'm saying the system is probably the least important aspect of being a coach. You have to be a leader, a motivator, a tactician. You have to be able to adjust on the fly. The fundamentals of hockey are always the same.

Being a tactician is about the system. Adjusting on the fly is about adjusting the system. The fundamentals of hockey are always the same, but how you apply them in a particular game situation is a matter of systems.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Frolik scored 7 goals and 15 points in his first 36-games, and then suffered a broken jaw in a game with the SJ Sharks on 28 Dec. After he returned on 30 Jan he finished the season with 3 goals and 10 points in his final 34 games. I am not sure if he has started a decline, but I suspect his injury recovery factored into his offensively disappointing season.

Backlund had 4 goals and 11 points in last 31 games...to be fair, his injury was suffering from “new contract safety and 6 year security-itis” as he signed right around the time he started to slump.

Completely unacceptable for a second line that needs to take pressure of the top line. And Backlunds team leading minus rating meant he wasn’t shutting down the opponents either.

We will see what pieces the Flames bring in this weekend to push Frolik and Backlund if they wish to stay in the top 6. If Peters does put lines in blenders, I’m guessing Lindholm and the guys targeting this weekend will get a shot there, along with Bennett and Janko.

[Bingo]

Look at Sam Bennett's 5 on 5 production in each of his three seasons.

Todd Cordel on Sam Bennett 5 on 5



Suggests some bad puck luck for those looking for a reason to see Bennett get back on track this season.

It's one thing to be bad on your own, but at 5.66% that's pretty low by NHL standards for his own activity and that of the players on the ice with him at the time.

Same thing destroyed the Backlund line last year.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Look at Sam Bennett's 5 on 5 production in each of his three seasons.

Todd Cordel on Sam Bennett 5 on 5



Suggests some bad puck luck for those looking for a reason to see Bennett get back on track this season.

It's one thing to be bad on your own, but at 5.66% that's pretty low by NHL standards for his own activity and that of the players on the ice with him at the time.

Same thing destroyed the Backlund line last year.

I thought after bennett actually looked pretty good after being moved to the wing with jankowski/jagr. He clearly lacked finish, but was able to get chances generated, which is almost more important. I have no doubt that, given better linemates, and ideally potting some goals/points early in the season, he could definitely be a big breakout candidate.


I haven't given up hope yet, unlike a lot around here. He's got the skillset, just needs it to click. With the amount of talent depth injected into the line up, and as long as the new coaches give him ample opportunity, he should be in a better position to succeed.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Look at Sam Bennett's 5 on 5 production in each of his three seasons.

Todd Cordel on Sam Bennett 5 on 5



Suggests some bad puck luck for those looking for a reason to see Bennett get back on track this season.

It's one thing to be bad on your own, but at 5.66% that's pretty low by NHL standards for his own activity and that of the players on the ice with him at the time.

Same thing destroyed the Backlund line last year.

I don't think it's all just bad luck for Bennett. I think his problem is a lack of finishing skills. He has the courage and skill to get to the scoring areas, but when he gets there, his shot release isn't quick enough and the velocity is not fast enough.

I think he needs to spend the Summer working on his shooting. I've always compared Bennett to Kesler, and it was the same situation. Kesler had moderate production the first 3 to 4 years in the NHL, then one year, he developed a one timer and exploded offensively.

The eye test suggests that Bennett can produce offense, it's a lack of finishing ability that is the problem, but this is something he can work on.

It's the same story for Backlund and Frolik, effective players able to generate offense, but lacking the finishing ability. All 3 were sub 7% in shooting percentage.

I don't think it's about luck. It's about skill.

Sidney Crosby recognized that he had a muffin of a shot and worked on it and became a 50 goal scorer. It's all up to Sam Bennett to get better. It's not just going to happen, unless he puts in the work.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by browna

Backlund had 4 goals and 11 points in last 31 games...to be fair, his injury was suffering from “new contract safety and 6 year security-itis” as he signed right around the time he started to slump.

Completely unacceptable for a second line that needs to take pressure of the top line. And Backlunds team leading minus rating meant he wasn’t shutting down the opponents either.

We will see what pieces the Flames bring in this weekend to push Frolik and Backlund if they wish to stay in the top 6. If Peters does put lines in blenders, I’m guessing Lindholm and the guys targeting this weekend will get a shot there, along with Bennett and Janko.

Backlund's is not a top 6 role.
2/3 defensive zone starts against toughest competition.
It's not his fault the Flames had no one to take second line minutes, just like hopefully it's not Bennett's fault that the team had zero talent to play with him.
I'm much more confident in Bennett than I was a couple months ago, which may just mean more disappointment lol.

[Bourque's Twin]

I watched Sam Bennett's video from his rookie season (including playoffs). Thanks AC.

He has so much talent and potential. Thankfully he's done playing centre as he clearly thrived on the wing. Also, put him with some decent teammates. Brouwer, Versteeg, Lazar etc. didn't cut it. I'm not sure Monahan would've done a lot better with those linemates either.

If Brouwer and Lazar didn't have contracts, I'm confident Brouwer wouldn't have a job and that Lazar would be on a rebuilding team's 4th line. Versteeg doesn't have a job.

Peters clearly laid out the top 6 as
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal

That leaves Bennett with these potential opportunities:
Bennett - Jankowski/Ryan - Frolik/Czarnik

This is a lot better than last year, and with sheltered 3rd line minutes should be able to produce good results.

P.S. That Bennett video made me very excited about Brodie on the right side.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I watched Sam Bennett's video from his rookie season (including playoffs). Thanks AC.

He has so much talent and potential. Thankfully he's done playing centre as he clearly thrived on the wing. Also, put him with some decent teammates. Brouwer, Versteeg, Lazar etc. didn't cut it. I'm not sure Monahan would've done a lot better with those linemates either.

If Brouwer and Lazar didn't have contracts, I'm confident Brouwer wouldn't have a job and that Lazar would be on a rebuilding team's 4th line. Versteeg doesn't have a job.

Peters clearly laid out the top 6 as
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal

That leaves Bennett with these potential opportunities:
Bennett - Jankowski/Ryan - Frolik/Czarnik

This is a lot better than last year, and with sheltered 3rd line minutes should be able to produce good results.

P.S. That Bennett video made me very excited about Brodie on the right side.

Lazar would have been put on waivers last year (and cleared) if it wasn’t for the fact that Treliving wasted a 2nd round pick on him and wasn’t willing to eat crow on it. I suspect with the off-season additions and the attention fading from that deal we’ve probably seen the last of Lazar in our regular season lineup.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't think it's all just bad luck for Bennett. I think his problem is a lack of finishing skills. He has the courage and skill to get to the scoring areas, but when he gets there, his shot release isn't quick enough and the velocity is not fast enough.

I think he needs to spend the Summer working on his shooting. I've always compared Bennett to Kesler, and it was the same situation. Kesler had moderate production the first 3 to 4 years in the NHL, then one year, he developed a one timer and exploded offensively.

The eye test suggests that Bennett can produce offense, it's a lack of finishing ability that is the problem, but this is something he can work on.

It's the same story for Backlund and Frolik, effective players able to generate offense, but lacking the finishing ability. All 3 were sub 7% in shooting percentage.

I don't think it's about luck. It's about skill.

Sidney Crosby recognized that he had a muffin of a shot and worked on it and became a 50 goal scorer. It's all up to Sam Bennett to get better. It's not just going to happen, unless he puts in the work.

You're ignoring a lot things though.

When a player has a bad shooting percentage he could be a bad finisher. When his on ice shooting percentage is below that of a replacement player than all of his on ice linemates also had subNHL seasons. That says luck to some degree.

Additionally ...

Backlund averaged 10% in shooting percentage for four years and then went down to 6.5%

Frolik averaged just over 9% for four years and last year cratered to 6%.

There is clearly something more than players that lack finish, as they've done it consistently before.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Look at Sam Bennett's 5 on 5 production in each of his three seasons.

Todd Cordel on Sam Bennett 5 on 5



Suggests some bad puck luck for those looking for a reason to see Bennett get back on track this season.

It's one thing to be bad on your own, but at 5.66% that's pretty low by NHL standards for his own activity and that of the players on the ice with him at the time.

Same thing destroyed the Backlund line last year.

Could much of the OI SH% 5.66% and SH 7.0% not be attributed to the fact that Bennett is too weak on the puck and has one of the worst shots in the league right now?

It's on the player, a top draft pick, to put in the effort to be a better pro. He is not strong enough. Bottom line. Some of his production relates to his poor line mates, but for me, that only goes so far.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Could much of the OI SH% 5.66% and SH 7.0% not be attributed to the fact that Bennett is too weak on the puck and has one of the worst shots in the league right now?

It's on the player, a top draft pick, to put in the effort to be a better pro. He is not strong enough. Bottom line. Some of his production relates to his poor line mates, but for me, that only goes so far.

It is if you can find a way to make the other 4 skaters on the ice also be massively affected by his terrible shot.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Lazar would have been put on waivers last year (and cleared) if it wasn’t for the fact that Treliving wasted a 2nd round pick on him and wasn’t willing to eat crow on it. I suspect with the off-season additions and the attention fading from that deal we’ve probably seen the last of Lazar in our regular season lineup.

He's eaten crow on other things so why wouldn't he on this one?
Who were they going to call up to replace him?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It is if you can find a way to make the other 4 skaters on the ice also be massively affected by his terrible shot.

No, but his incredibly weak frame would certainly contribute to his line mates inability to generate high quality shots as well. Too often people equate Bennett's struggles to his line mates, however, I also see his inability to do anything with the puck in the offensive zone as a huge hindrance to everyone else on the ice.