Wine Snobs Got Nothing

[troutman]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

That Guardian-reported study seems a bit limited.

Really, all it shows is that the quality or "goodness" of a wine - as far as most people can tell - does not correlate with the price of the wine.

And it's also limited in that it asked the question of non-experts - which is fine to a limited extent. But I'd be interested to see how experts fared by comparison - not in assessing which wines were "cheap" and which were "expensive," but rather which scored highly, and which did not. It would also be fun to compare the average and spread of ratings amongst experts on blind taste tests.

Anyway, for the average Joe, the study is reassuring, I just wouldn't extrapolate it to a more wine-educated crowd.

The links in post # 5 shows how professional wine tasters do not test much better. I recall reading some could not even distinguish white from red in blind testing.

[pylon]

LOL at wine snobs. They are no different than hipsters and their music.

All I have to say is this....

As much as CO-OP gold beer is one of those best kept secret beers, the CO-OP gold wine is equally as well kept a secret. $6.50 a bottle if you buy it by the case... white or red.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Matata

Here's Penn & Teller making a bunch of food snobs look stupid for 10 minutes (language)

NSFW!

Meh I say.

The look of the food is a big part of what you pay for in a restaurant. Things like the look, the way it's served, the way it's connected with other courses and wine, the texture, that's the stuff that most often sets the good apart from the average. The taste itself I can more often than not produce at home just from analyzing what I just ate. (I am a pretty good cook.)

Besides, most people are polite, and are not going to spoil a nice mood by saying that "your bruschetta tastes like stale toast", especially if they have company and the restaurant did put out the effort to at least make it look delicious.

As to the wine tasting, this is pretty much what I'd expect.
a) people like different things. This explains a ton of the variety
b) people actually smell and taste different things. This explains yet more of the variety
c) if you really believe that "price" equals "quality" you have simply misunderstood what you're paying for in a wine (and are propably paying too much for a lot of stuff in your life)
d) that a bunch of random people at a science festival can't tell apart wines is about as informative as a lot of people at a wine festival not being able to tell apart Isaac Newton from Isaac Asimov. In other words, what's the point? It's not like every average Joe goes around buying $50 bottles of wine in the belief that they can tell the difference.

Just because 95% of snobbery is BS doesn't mean that it all is.

I've been double blind tested (science geekery for the win!) on common Finnish lagers and I could tell apart the brands I hated and the ones I liked. I've also noticed by taste that something has changed, only to learn that I'm drinking from a bottle that's actually from a different brewery than I thought it was, despite the same brand. (For Finns, this was when Karhu was bought by Koff and moved from Pori to Kerava.) I've often noticed when a cider I buy is from a new batch (I drink a lot of unfiltered ciders, which have huge varieties in taste).

Also, very typically what you pay for in drinks is quality control. With cheap beers you never know what you'll get, and yeah, sometimes it can actually be pretty good. However I like to pay for the stuff that's on average better, most especially because I really hate getting a glass of coloured water or undrinkable swill. (Propably drinking cheap beer and just tossing the bad ones would be cheaper in the long run, but I don't drink enough to care.)

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by troutman

The links in post # 5 shows how professional wine tasters do not test much better. I recall reading some could not even distinguish white from red in blind testing.

Yeah there have been studies done where WINE EXPERTS were given two white wines, one with red food colouring in it to simulate a red, and were fooled at a pretty high rate.

Itse, I would say a lot of what you are describing would be based on your personal memories of different tastes and that you are good at distinguishing between them and picking out differences.

I think that's a little different than wine tasting, which is tasting new brands and flavours and "objectively" saying which one is "better".

[troutman]

Is Wine-Tasting Junk Science?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2014/0...g-junk-science

Connoisseurship of this sort, however, is in bad repute these days. An article published in the Guardian last summer titled reviews studies purporting to show that when it comes to wine, even the experts are unreliable guides. It isn't just that they disagree among themselves in the values and qualities of wines; they disagree with themselves from one minute to the next in evaluating the very same wine poured from the very same bottle.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...ience-analysis

Experiments have shown that people can't tell plonk from grand cru. Now one US winemaker claims that even experts can't judge wine accurately. What's the science behind the taste?


Hodgson's findings have stunned the wine industry. Over the years he has shown again and again that even trained, professional palates are terrible at judging wine.

"The results are disturbing," says Hodgson from the Fieldbrook Winery in Humboldt County, described by its owner as a rural paradise. "Only about 10% of judges are consistent and those judges who were consistent one year were ordinary the next year.

"Chance has a great deal to do with the awards that wines win."

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

One time I ordered a fish sandwich from BK, but they gave me a double fish burger by mistake. The fact that the second fish patty was free made it extra delicious.

[Envitro]

So my wife and I aren't snobs, but we are wine enthusiasts. She is taking her WSET Sommelier Level 3 this fall and is thinking about switching streams to eventually get her Master of Wine Degree/Diploma. There are only like 350 people in the world that have this. I am a boutique/small batch winemaker myself and have immersed myself in the science & art of making wine. I have a dedicated cellar, cold room, and wine making room in my house so I'd like to think I've invested more into this hobby in time and money than most people will in a bunch of years in just enjoying wine.

With that all said our combined experience leads us to believe that nobody can get wine ratings correctly since it's an intensely personal experience. Yes, you can have a rating system and try to standardize it as much as you can, but in the end the person drinking the wine will either enjoy it thoroughly or not...

I have immensily enjoyed one particular bottle from a producer in California on one night, and been kind of "meh" about it two days later (same bin/batch, same vintage). Same with my wines, I'll like it a lot one day and be OK with it another day.

It all depends, in my opinion, on dozens of factors when you're actually tasting the wine. These may be your stress level or the mood that you're in, what you've had to eat in the last 24-48 hours, did you have anything else to drink that day, how exhausted is your palate at that particular moment, and so many other things that I could name here.

Yes, if you take the time to develop your nose and palate then you will be able to identify certain characteristics in wine. But that doesn't mean that you'll enjoy that particular bottle. In my wife's classes they try typically 20-30 wines per week and out of all the hundreds of wines that she has tried (most over $30) she would buy maybe 2 or 3 at most. That should tell you something.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by pylon

LOL at wine snobs. They are no different than hipsters and their music.

All I have to say is this....

As much as CO-OP gold beer is one of those best kept secret beers, the CO-OP gold wine is equally as well kept a secret. $6.50 a bottle if you buy it by the case... white or red.

Yeah, cool. You probably pick up flowers from CO-OP for your wife or girlfriend too, hey?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

Yeah, cool. You probably pick up flowers from CO-OP for your wife or girlfriend too, hey?

And pass up the free ones at the park, your on crack!

[AcGold]

The only ones you can really tell apart are the extra cheap ones that take shortcuts and taste like turpentine replaced the grape fermenting process. Otherwise it's mostly subjective, I drink wine a lot and can't tell the difference between a $100 and $15 bottle. To a lot of people it's an ego thing where they like to boast about how refined their sense of taste is but really there's just a sweet/dry spectrum and the rest is subjective.

[Blaster86]

As someone who sells wine, I tell people what I want them to taste and that's what the end up tasting. I am obviously not full on bull-####ting, but you can easily cherry pick characteristics that you want them to focus on.

I think the power of suggestion is one of the biggest factors in if someone will or will not like the wine.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JFK

I've been bitching about it forever, but it's the same way with beer snobs.

Pour a budweiser in some micro-brewery bottle from rural Germany, and serve it to a beer snob and he'll probably rave about how fantastic it is. Then serve him a bud in it's proper bottle, and you'll get some "mass-produced", "quality deprived" BS response.

Snobs suck balls.

Originally Posted by Yasa

But only the finest of balls.

How did I miss this gem... too funny.

[AcGold]

Beer is way easier to taste the quality of than wine, snob or not. A cheap Budweiser and a world class German beer straight from the brewery have huge differences that are more than subjectivity.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by AcGold

The only ones you can really tell apart are the extra cheap ones that take shortcuts and taste like turpentine replaced the grape fermenting process. Otherwise it's mostly subjective, I drink wine a lot and can't tell the difference between a $100 and $15 bottle. To a lot of people it's an ego thing where they like to boast about how refined their sense of taste is but really there's just a sweet/dry spectrum and the rest is subjective.

Don't be dissin on the Night Train, fine vintage with subtle hints of Kool aid and vomit

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by pylon

LOL at wine snobs. They are no different than hipsters and their music.

All I have to say is this....

As much as CO-OP gold beer is one of those best kept secret beers, the CO-OP gold wine is equally as well kept a secret. $6.50 a bottle if you buy it by the case... white or red.

Except we don't have a hissy fit when someone puts a bottle of his cheaper wine next to our expensive wine, and we don't spout off about unwritten rules society should know about. As long as your are careful not to dent or damage our bottles, we don't mind that your wine is there. Some people like to learn and enjoy a lot about wine. Others like to do the same with cars. The hipster comment makes no sense here.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by username

Hmmm maybe they should sample some of my dad's home made potions and run this study. His wine is like drinking diesel compared to 7 dollar bottle "cheap" wine.

Son, is that you? Son?

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Beer is way easier to taste the quality of than wine, snob or not. A cheap Budweiser and a world class German beer straight from the brewery have huge differences that are more than subjectivity.

Yup. It's not like macros make styles like IPA's, stouts etc. You could probably fool most people with lagers, pilsners, simple ales.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Yup. It's not like macros make styles like IPA's, stouts etc. You could probably fool most people with lagers, pilsners, simple ales.

Unsure what you mean. Sarcasm right? Yes there is a lot of similarity between many beer types but a German beer from the brewery is a heck of a lot different than a budweiser. Anyways

[csnarpy]

My favourite chard is $40 and favorite red is $17

Don't care about price, it's all about taste.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Unsure what you mean. Sarcasm right? Yes there is a lot of similarity between many beer types but a German beer from the brewery is a heck of a lot different than a budweiser. Anyways

Its as ridiculous as saying some wine tasters couldn't tell the difference between white and red. They're so completely different at a macro level, they must have been comparing a light white and a very light red (ie a Gamay or similar). Of course within a large enough sample size you're going to have outliers.

Someone with as much free time during the day should research and post some terribly unscientific surveys about how terrible rock music is to troll Troutman back.