2018 Blue Jays Season Thread

[JTech780]

Compare what the Rangers got for Hamels. They got a 27 year old minor league pitcher and 22 year old pitcher who hasn't pitched above high A. The return the Jays got for Happ was the best they were going to get.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Prior to this year Drury was an everyday player in Arizona. Drury is an upgrade on Solarte defensively, he will bat for a better average and have a better OBP, and has just as much power as Solarte.

Career slashlines are pretty comparable (almost identical).

Solarte (Career): .262/.321/.419
Drury (Career): .267/.316/.439

Defensive metrics are hard for me to fully understand but most rating systems have Solarte as the "better" fielder (both are negative but Drury is more negative).

On a good team Drury is NOT an everyday player. He's just a guy off the bench that isn't a blackhole in the batting order... just like Solarte. I'm fairly convinced that even if there wasn't anything "better" on offer for Happ that there was probably something "different" on offer... and IMO different would probably be of more future value to the Jays then yet another marginal value utility infielder.

[flames_fan_down_under]

If he was good enough to start for the Diamondbacks, good enough for the Yankees to acquire and slate him as their opening day starter at third whose farm system is stacked (yes he was supplanted by Andujar), why is he not good enough for the Jays who’s current situation at third is pitiful?

[Jason14h]

Who cares if he is good enough to play on the Jays. The idea isn't always to improve your team for the next season. (Unless you are Rogers and only care about your next financial statement and selling the team)



Are we trying to build a winning team to compete with the Yankees and Sox, or win 70 games next season?


How many years do you think the Jays are, best case, from competing with these teams? I would say 3.


In 3 years Drury is in his final year of arbitration. He will be 28.



Sure he will help the team next year. Maybe we win a few extra games. I know I'm excited to win 72 instead of 70 games next year now!!

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Who cares if he is good enough to play on the Jays. The idea isn't always to improve your team for the next season. (Unless you are Rogers and only care about your next financial statement and selling the team)



Are we trying to build a winning team to compete with the Yankees and Sox, or win 70 games next season?


How many years do you think the Jays are, best case, from competing with these teams? I would say 3.


In 3 years Drury is in his final year of arbitration. He will be 28.



Sure he will help the team next year. Maybe we win a few extra games. I know I'm excited to win 72 instead of 70 games next year now!!

So we're they supposed to trade Happ for a guy playing rookie ball, who maybe has a chance to be a major leaguer someday. Hamels didn't bring back a top 30 prospect from the Cubs.

28 years old in baseball is a whole lot different than 28 years old in hockey. At 28 Drury will still be in his prime.

Happ brought back 2 guys that will most likely play in the majors next year. Yet they didn't do well enough in this trade? McKinney is rated at 18 on the Blue Jays top 30 prospects. The Jays weren't going to get any better prospects for Happ.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

If he was good enough to start for the Diamondbacks, good enough for the Yankees to acquire and slate him as their opening day starter at third whose farm system is stacked (yes he was supplanted by Andujar), why is he not good enough for the Jays who’s current situation at third is pitiful?

... because he doesn't seem to offer an upgrade on what they already have at third (currently... if Donaldson were healthy he'd be a huge downgrade) and as soon as they're done manipulating Vlad's service time next season he'll be a surefire downgrade.

Really, by fWAR he was 7th on the 2017 Diamondbacks amoung batters... it's not like he was a key cog on their team (the year before he was 11th).

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... because he doesn't seem to offer an upgrade on what they already have at third (currently... if Donaldson were healthy he'd be a huge downgrade) and as soon as they're done manipulating Vlad's service time next season he'll be a surefire downgrade.

Really, by fWAR he was 7th on the 2017 Diamondbacks amoung batters... it's not like he was a key cog on their team (the year before he was 11th).

That's if Vlad plays 3rd in the majors which is a huge if, I would say his mostly likely position at the majors is 1st.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Sure he will help the team next year. Maybe we win a few extra games.

See that's the thing... I don't think he'll help them win a few extra games next year because I doubt he'll be an upgrade over whomever would otherwise log his innings/get his at plate appearances.

He can't play short so he'll be either at 3B or 2B... would he be a real upgrade over three of Solarte/Travis/Gurriel/Diaz? YMMV but I doubt it. That's just to start... come mid-may or so he'd need to be better then four of Solarte/Travis/Gurriel/Diaz/Vlad. Heck, come September he might have to be better then six of Solarte/Travis/Gurriel/Diaz/Vlad/Bichette/Biggio.

Originally Posted by JTech780

That's if Vlad plays 3rd in the majors which is a huge if, I would say his mostly likely position at the majors is 1st.

Long term yes... short term I think he get's to man third. The only way getting him makes any sense is if they can parley Solarte into something else... then I can consider the true return on Happ to be McKinney + 'Something else' + additional payroll via Solarte's contract transferring.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by JTech780

So we're they supposed to trade Happ for a guy playing rookie ball, who maybe has a chance to be a major leaguer someday. Hamels didn't bring back a top 30 prospect from the Cubs.

28 years old in baseball is a whole lot different than 28 years old in hockey. At 28 Drury will still be in his prime.

Happ brought back 2 guys that will most likely play in the majors next year. Yet they didn't do well enough in this trade? McKinney is rated at 18 on the Blue Jays top 30 prospects. The Jays weren't going to get any better prospects for Happ.

I don't think you understand the biggest issues. He is arbitration eligible this season, and we are not where near competing. It doesn't matter that he may be 'in his prime". It is irrelevant.


Even if everything goes the best it can, it doesn't help the team. If he does perform well, we win 2-3 more games that we really don't want to, he gets big increases in pay through arbitration, and when we are ready to compete he is a UFA/last year of control.


If he doesn't do well, we got nothing in the trade.


If he had no service time at 25, I could maybe get behind it. This is Atkins having a hard on for a player he has pursued for 2 years, and wanting him as the centerpiece.


And I have no doubts Rogers is pressuring Atkins to put a 'competitive' team on the field to sell tickets next year while they try to sell the team.


I want a real rebuild (Well I wanted it 2 years ago and was called a Rogers hater!) We have wasted 2 years, and are at last 3 away.



But let's just keep aiming for 80 wins and a miracle!



To me it's a loose/loose situation.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I don't think you understand the biggest issue. He is arbitration eligible this season. It doesn't matter that he may be 'in his prime"


Even if everything goes the best it can, it doesn't help the team. If he does perform well, we win 2-3 more games that we really don't want to, he gets big increases in pay through arbitration, and when we are ready to compete he is a UFA/last year of control.


If he doesn't do well, we got nothing in the trade.


If he has no service time at 25, I could maybe get behind it. This is Atkins having a hard on for a player he has pursued for 2 years, and wanting him as the centerpiece.


And I have no doubts Rogers is pressuring Atkins to put a 'competitive' team on the field to sell tickets next year while they try to sell the team.


I want a real rebuild (Well I wanted it 2 years ago and was called a Rogers hater!) We have wasted 2 years, and are at last 3 away.



But let's just keep aiming for 80 wins and a miracle!



To me it's a loose/loose situation.

But even they went and got a younger player, that players upside wasn't going to be better than what Drury is now. If they did get a prospect with more control it was going to be a low end prospect.

I think if Vlad makes the team next year, which he most likely will, then yes you do want to win some games. You don't want to bring up your future superstar and subject him to a 100 loss season. While they aren't ready to compete, they still need to be competitive. Their prospect pool is plenty strong enough that they don't need to bottom out and bottoming out most likely won't help them all that much anyways.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by JTech780

But even they went and got a younger player, that players upside wasn't going to be better than what Drury is now. If they did get a prospect with more control it was going to be a low end prospect.

I think if Vlad makes the team next year, which he most likely will, then yes you do want to win some games. You don't want to bring up your future superstar and subject him to a 100 loss season. While they aren't ready to compete, they still need to be competitive. Their prospect pool is plenty strong enough that they don't need to bottom out and bottoming out most likely won't help them all that much anyways.

This is where we disagree. This teams prospect depth isn't good. We have a few studs, and very little else.


They should ensure Vlad doesn't waist an eligible year next season. And they should loose 100 games and get a top 5 pick. They should have done that this year as well.



They should have trade Stroman and Sanchez last year (And not because they are no good this year) but because they had control and you maximize the return.


They should have another 5-6 young guys from these trades, all coming up together plus a few more top 5 picks.


They should had been aiming for a 2020 competitive team 3 years ago.


Instead we will be stuck in mediocrazy again because they refuse to rebuild.Keep aiming for 80 wins and a miracle wildcard birth if everything goes right.



Vlad will be the new Halladay. We will be stuck behind the Yanks and Sox, and every year pray "Everything to go right" while being 3rd in our division.

Welcome back to Rogers ball!

[Mr.Coffee]

they just interviewed Drury on SNet and it was hilarious.

Dude seems less than impressed to say the least. "You mentioned you were excited to be a Blue Jay, what are you most excited about coming to Toronto?"

"................ uhhhh stuff and it'll be... a place. To be."

[flames_fan_down_under]

I don’t know how you can’t be excited about the future of this team. Vlad is a baby and is already an mlb level hitter its awesome. Bo Bichette. Nate Pearson. Groshans. The pipeline is stacked. We just had a rookie shortstop go 3 for 5 with two home runs and a double. I can’t help but be excited about the future of this team. I certainly wouldn’t say a few studs and very little else.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Vladito has been called up to AAA.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

They should ensure Vlad doesn't waist an eligible year next season. And they should loose 100 games and get a top 5 pick. They should have done that this year as well.

Vlad will be the new Halladay. We will be stuck behind the Yanks and Sox, and every year pray "Everything to go right" while being 3rd in our division.

Does a top 5 pick really mean much in Baseball? With slot money and International signings plus signability issues I don't think the difference at the top of the draft matters as much.

I think Delgado might be a better comparable for Vlad Jr.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Does a top 5 pick really mean much in Baseball? With slot money and International signings plus signability issues I don't think the difference at the top of the draft matters as much.

I think Delgado might be a better comparable for Vlad Jr.

Well you get more slot and international money the lower you finish

So while you are probably correct that in MLB the pick itself isn’t as much a sure thing as other sports , you get other benefits as well .

[JTech780]

I hate these bullpen days. Why not call up Pannone or Reid-Foley and see what you have in either of those guys. Especially if Estrada or Stroman get traded. Dang analytics community is ruining baseball and now they are out to ruin hockey too.

[GirlySports]

Oh no. Even when the Jay's score 5 in the 9th something goes wrong. Gurriel twisted his knee.

[Karl]

Oh Lord that looked not very good for Lourdes.

[Karl]

Man something always just HAS to go wrong doesn't it?