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Old 06-18-2017, 08:42 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
I haven't seen anyone suggesting the Flames will get any of these players at a discount, or assuming we will somehow get a "free lunch". So I really don't see the need for you come along and smugly state the obvious.
So who are you trading to Vegas for the player you just suggested? How about starting there? What are the Flames prepared to give up that would entice Vegas to draft a player of Calgary's interest instead of their own?
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:50 AM   #62
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So who are you trading to Vegas for the player you just suggested? How about starting there? What are the Flames prepared to give up that would entice Vegas to draft a player of Calgary's interest instead of their own?
I'm not sure, and even said that in one of my posts.

I'm not even going to guess or make a "proposal" because player valuation is completely subjective and no matter what I could possibly propose very few people would agree with me one way or another, as evidenced by the other billion+ trade proposals made on the internet. Any proposal I feel is fair would be met with ire from both sides of the spectrum, and I'm certainly not going to do it to appease you.

I'm just going to leave it as any of Demers, Reilly Smith or Marchessault would be a great fit for Calgary, and are now proven to be available for the expansion draft. As long as the cost isn't ridiculously high, they'd be great adds for Treliving to consider.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:56 AM   #63
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I think 'available for expansion draft' is different than 'available.'

Having to expose players is different than wanting to get rid of them, doesn't mean they will be traded if not picked by the Knights. I know a lot of you will say that's obvious, but it must not be judging by the number of get this guy or that guy posts.

In a case like FLA they know they are losing one of their bright kids. I'm sure that will be enough for them.

If there is a trade it will involve guys on the Flames you probably want to keep.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:05 AM   #64
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I think 'available for expansion draft' is different than 'available'
That's true, but we now enter into the situation Eric Duhatsyek described. Which is Vegas will be looking to be a "broker" for teams. For example, if the Flames want Marchessault, they work out a trade with Vegas for him. If they come to an agreement, Vegas chooses Marchessault and then trades him to Calgary.

This is how I thought the Flames would get their goalie. I think Vegas picks then trades 2/3 goalies.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:08 AM   #65
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So who are you trading to Vegas for the player you just suggested? How about starting there? What are the Flames prepared to give up that would entice Vegas to draft a player of Calgary's interest instead of their own?
Picks and prospects if they don't have a specific player they really want from a team.

I can see Vegas stock piling a bunch of picks and prospects this draft, and packaging them for an NHL player.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:13 AM   #66
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Vegas is unlikely to trade good forwards, as they aren't going to have many. So you'll pay a premium, not get a deal. That's why "get this guy!", when the guy is a forward, is unrealistic.

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Old 06-18-2017, 09:16 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by TheFlamesVan View Post
That's true, but we now enter into the situation Eric Duhatsyek described. Which is Vegas will be looking to be a "broker" for teams. For example, if the Flames want Marchessault, they work out a trade with Vegas for him. If they come to an agreement, Vegas chooses Marchessault and then trades him to Calgary.

This is how I thought the Flames would get their goalie. I think Vegas picks then trades 2/3 goalies.
Sure, but Vegas isn't going to flip Marchessault to Calgary for less than Marchessault's full value. Otherwise, why not just keep him themselves?

The discount shopping was only available prior to the draft, when teams might want to avoid losing a guy for nothing.

But now that we are at the draft, all the players are back to market value. Vegas has no incentive to flip a player for less than the value of the player.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:19 AM   #68
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Oh yes of course. By no means do I think they'll get a discount. Vegas still hired a professional GM like the rest of the league.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:22 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by TheFlamesVan View Post
Picks and prospects if they don't have a specific player they really want from a team.

I can see Vegas stock piling a bunch of picks and prospects this draft, and packaging them for an NHL player.
Flames don't have the picks or prospects to move. The salary structure dictates they have young players filtering in, and they need what picks they have left to keep the pipe full. Treliving has burned enough picks this year and next. Don't go full Sutter while trying to plug holes.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:22 AM   #70
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Wow I lot of surprise players left unprotected
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:24 AM   #71
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One of the problems with not developing our own depth players the last couple years is that we don't have many young players with significant experience / upside, whom we'd be willing to part with in a two for one trade. I think the best we can hope for this season is to dump Stajan and Bouma. Get another defenceman and a couple forwards in the NHL. We need to develop our own assets and avoid boat-anchor free agents.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:25 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
I'm just going to leave it as any of Demers, Reilly Smith or Marchessault would be a great fit for Calgary, and are now proven to be available for the expansion draft. As long as the cost isn't ridiculously high, they'd be great adds for Treliving to consider.
Based on the rumoured deals Vegas has lined up, the cost will indeed be very high for any transactions that result in Vegas not being able to select the best player from a team (or immediately trading him away).

It's nice that Demers would be a good fit, but I see no reason to trade for him with lower cost options available in FA. So to New Era's point, it really does seem like people don't know that if they keep posting "get this guy!" type posts post-reveal of the list. Vegas is an expensive trading partner, we don't have assets.

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Old 06-18-2017, 09:31 AM   #73
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Seems LV is going to be stockpiling picks. Perhaps Treliving could nab one of those.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:46 AM   #74
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On a side note, I would just like to say taht the NHL has gotten exactly what it wanted here. I know a lot of people like to hate on Bettman, but let's assess the Vegas siuation here.

1) The NHL was able to charge a $500M expansion fee. HUGE win for the owners.

2) In order to entice that, Bettman offered Vegas a 'better' expansion deal. By reducing the amount of players that each team could protect, the idea was that there would be some decent players available to Vegas. Turns out there were. Vegas wins big.

3) Typically, new expansion teams suck for years before they can become competitive. If a team could get a better jump out of the gate, it should help the team, the fans, and the league. It appears that this will in fact happen, so that's a win for all those groups.

4) Parity. The league has worked very hard to achieve more parity, making the vast majority of games competitive. By stocking Vegas so well here, they should be much more competitive than a typical expansion team has been. Another win for the league.

From a 40,000 foot perspective, this expansion has been an absolute homerun for Bettman, the league, Vegas, and (hopefully) their fans.

Edit: sorry, not the right thread for this
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:05 AM   #75
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So when can we expect to start hearing details on trades that have been made? What about the deal that Treliving referenced yesterday when he said details couldn't be announced yet?
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:06 AM   #76
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So when can we expect to start hearing details on trades that have been made? What about the deal that Treliving referenced yesterday when he said details couldn't be announced yet?
Say what?
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:14 AM   #77
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So when can we expect to start hearing details on trades that have been made? What about the deal that Treliving referenced yesterday when he said details couldn't be announced yet?
Wednesday during the NHL award show. Leaks may come out earlier.
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:11 AM   #78
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That guy on the TSN expansion draft special panel said when he talked with Mcphee, his plan is to build Vegas for long term success through the draft, and developing young players.

Makes sense that he's willing to let any team keep the players they want to keep as long as they pay a price, and I bet that price is high picks/prospects. For that reason it wouldn't shock me in the least to see a guy like Neal shopped around by Vegas, and then if Poile won't match the best offer Mcphee gets, he takes him just to flip him for picks/prospects, rather than keep him for the Vegas roster.
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:13 AM   #79
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I wonder what it would take from the Flames to get Dumba via Vegas?

22 year old RHD from Calgary
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:15 AM   #80
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I wonder what it would take from the Flames to get Dumba via Vegas?

22 year old RHD from Calgary
That's probably the type of player Vegas would want to keep, not flip as he's a long term asset. So I imagine the price would be very, very steep.
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