High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Not really, no. She gave her account of what happened that night, and Aziz doesn't seem to argue the facts. So the debate should be based on what constitutes sexual assault and not her name.

It's not some anonymous source saying something that may or may not have happened and the 'accused' arguing differently. Besides, Aziz knows who it is if he wanted to open up that Pandora's box.

This is more on the general people. If they read "Aziz sexual assaults woman" as a headline and don't bother to read the account to at least get their own view on the night in question, that's on them, not the woman.

I'm not criticizing the accuser's right to tell her story. I'm criticizing babe.net for publishing the story without any apparent fact checking, and putting the reputation and livelihood of a human being in jeopardy. Isn't this how Rolling Stone got into trouble with that rape story a couple years ago?

Moreover, there is no upside for Aziz to name his accuser. If he were to name her, he is going to come off like a bully who is using his power to silence her.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't think that happened per her account.

Well yeah, because she got up and left. He wasn't putting her hands in her mouth and unzipping her pants to play a game of Scrabble.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

I'm not criticizing the accuser's right to tell her story. I'm criticizing babe.net for publishing the story without any apparent fact checking, and putting the reputation and livelihood of a human being in jeopardy. Isn't this how Rolling Stone got into trouble with that rape story a couple years ago?

They did do fact checking. They obtained copies of the text messages, they validated that the number they were sent to and from were correct. They verified that the stated conversations with her friends did in fact occur by interviewing her friends to cross check that these discussions did occur. And they asked Aziz's rep for comment.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Edit NM

[CliffFletcher]

She also said that she felt he was a totally different person than the one she saw on TV. Really, this was a naive young woman who had a bad date with a guy who seems like a bit of a ######. I don't think she made anything up, or had malicious intent by going to the media. She just happens to be going through this stage of life during an era when a moral panic has blurred the lines between 'bad date' and 'assault.'

If anything good comes of this, maybe it'll be people realizing that most celebrities are entitled #######s who are very different people in their private life than the fantasies they project for audiences. Because celebrity (and status) worship is part of the problem.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by GGG

They did do fact checking. They obtained copies of the text messages, they validated that the number they were sent to and from were correct. They verified that the stated conversations with her friends did in fact occur by interviewing her friends to cross check that these discussions did occur. And they asked Aziz's rep for comment.

I think that's the level of fact checking in the Rolling Stone story as well -- basically they confirmed that the two parties had a date and that she left feeling bad about the encounter. What I meant by fact-checking is whether Ansari has had previous history of doing this to women: are there police reports filed, did they talk to his ex-girlfriends, did they talk to other women he had dated, did they talk to old friends and colleagues about his past behavior around women, etc.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well yeah, because she got up and left. He wasn't putting her hands in her mouth and unzipping her pants to play a game of Scrabble.

I think I misread your post. I thought you were saying he sexually assaulted her after they put clothes back on.

[FireGilbert]

I was completely on the side of #metoo however with the Ansari allegations the movement has jumped the shark. Going on a bad date with bad sex is not assault. Also publishing those intimate details in an attempt to hurt his career is pretty much revenge porn.

I hope women still come forward against creeps who have assaulted them but am concerned about #metoo now being used as a revenge tool by women after a bad date.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

I think that's the level of fact checking in the Rolling Stone story as well -- basically they confirmed that the two parties had a date and that she left feeling bad about the encounter. What I meant by fact-checking is whether Ansari has had previous history of doing this to women: are there police reports filed, did they talk to his ex-girlfriends, did they talk to other women he had dated, did they talk to old friends and colleagues about his past behavior around women, etc.

No. The person accused the fraternity of gang raping her during a party held at the fraternity house as part of a pledge initiation.

Among other discrepancies, there was no party held at the house on the date that she said. And that there would be no pledges at the time as pledging occurs in the spring, not autumn when it allegedly took place. Pretty much just basic factual details that could have been easily been researched were wrong, including the house layout.

It's not anywhere near on par to this situation which at least had texts indicated that a date was held between them and the accused felt uncomfortable the day after.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think I misread your post. I thought you were saying he sexually assaulted her after they put clothes back on.

If a person asks a date to cool it in no uncertain terms, especially as they put back on their clothes, and the date's response is to pretty much immediately try and undo her pants and finger her, at best that suggests a predatory nature of the date in my opinion.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

If a person asks a date to cool it in no uncertain terms, especially as they put back on their clothes, and the date's response is to pretty much immediately try and undo her pants and finger her, at best that suggests a predatory nature of the date in my opinion.

Aggressive yes, sexually assault No. Behaviour I would want my children to emulate or tolerate, No.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't know if it's been posted, but Claire Berlinski's article (https://www.the-american-interest.co...-warlock-hunt/) remains the single best written piece on this topic, in my view.

We are a culture historically disposed to moral panics and sexual hysterias. Not long ago we firmly convinced ourselves that our children were being ritually raped by Satanists. In recent years, especially, we have become prone to replacing complex thought with shallow slogans. We live in times of extremism, and black-and-white thinking. We should have the self-awareness to suspect that the events of recent weeks may not be an aspect of our growing enlightenment, but rather our growing enamorment with extremism.

We should certainly realize by now that a moral panic mixed with an internet mob is a menace. When the mob descends on a target of prominence, it’s as good as a death sentence, socially and professionally. None of us lead lives so faultless that we cannot be targeted this way. “Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime.”

Your computer can be hacked. Do you want to live in the kind of paranoid society where everyone wonders—Who’s next? To whom is it safe to speak freely? What would this joke sound like in a deposition? Do you think only the men who have done something truly foul are at risk? Don’t kid yourself. Once this starts, it doesn’t stop. The Perp Walk awaits us all.

[V]

I think the real story here is that this girl had never seen Seinfeld before. That's just awful.

[snootchiebootchies]

[Manhattanboy]

I had never heard of “Babe” before. So they got what they wanted at the cost of this poor guy’s career.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I had never heard of “Babe” before. So they got what they wanted at the cost of this poor guy’s career.

I don't think Aziz Ansari sees any professional blow back from this.

His is the first case where many people have actually felt sorry for the accused and have blasted the accuser.

[Thor]

She is 23, the Azari accuser, one of this generations spoiled trigger words, safe space, victimhood mentality people who see a potential slight as a violent attack on them.

This is the generation that didn't think Democracy was important, that free speech isn't important if it hurts people..

Her playing victim over this bad date, while taking zero responsibility is just the tip of the iceberg of what is coming with this generation of actual snowflakes.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Thor

This is the generation that didn't think Democracy was important, that free speech isn't important if it hurts people..

Her playing victim over this bad date, while taking zero responsibility is just the tip of the iceberg of what is coming with this generation of actual snowflakes.

I don't think it's anything close to a whole generation; it's a sub-set: affluent, educated, devoutly progressive as a religion. Narcissistic. They do have outsized influence for their numbers, but I get the impression most people in the generation just roll their eyes at their antics.

Their generation is in a tough place in the dating scene, negotiating between the transactional clarity of app-facilitated hookups and the messiness of traditional dating. I think the porn-saturated environment younger guys have grown up with plays a role here too. One commentator on the Ansari date described modern hookups as "a joyless mimetic of porn moves."

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Thor

She is 23, the Azari accuser, one of this generations spoiled trigger words, safe space, victimhood mentality people who see a potential slight as a violent attack on them.

This is the generation that didn't think Democracy was important, that free speech isn't important if it hurts people..

Her playing victim over this bad date, while taking zero responsibility is just the tip of the iceberg of what is coming with this generation of actual snowflakes.

I don't think that is what happened here. She was clearly hurt by the experience and didn't know how to deal with it. Given the whole #metoo movement around her actions become reasonable.

It took a really long time for me to validate this as sexual assault,” she told us. “I was debating if this was an awkward sexual experience or sexual assault. And that’s why I confronted so many of my friends and listened to what they had to say, because I wanted validation that it was actually bad.”

From this quote you can see how she was moved from ackward sexual experience to considering it assault. I don't think your over the top hot take on snowflakes is appropriate.

I also think there is a lot of self blaming within the article. She states she didn't leave earlier because of his show character. She states repeatedly that she didn't verbally say no many of the advances.

These types of incidents are good conversation points for discussions about consent. This type of story provides a good example of how poor people are at sending and receiving non-verbal communications.

[CaptainCrunch]

Re-reading that and her talking to her friends about it - good

Her friends moving the scale from bad date to sexual assault - bad friends