Ongoing Arizona Coyotes arena saga: Arena land auction June 27

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That's the big flag for me as well. The tone has changed and the messaging sounds way less confident than in the past.

I think the NHL has probably been presented with interesting offers in other markets and aren't interested in any more lifelines for Arizona. I am sure Bettman would love for this last attempt in Arizona to work, but I get the sense they aren't against it not working at this point.

Yeah I think Bettman has been getting a lot of pressure from the NHLPA, the move to ASU was only supposed to be temporary 3 years max. With no new building in place or construction started they are going to be past the 3 year window (Grace period). He might be able to stall 1 or 2 years if building is on the way, but if this gets blocked somehow, he almost has no choice.

[Jordan!]

Can we call other markets poverty teams if Meruelo actually finances all of this with his own cash and ZERO tax dollars from citizens? ahem.. Alberta

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

They still need to get the land rezoned, too. And what if the city doesn't allow that? Then where are they at?

The land is zoned for an indoor ice hockey arena already, I believe the only thing it is not zoned for is hotels

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Can we call other markets poverty teams if Meruelo actually finances all of this with his own cash and ZERO tax dollars from citizens? ahem.. Alberta

Wow. You are giving a lot of credit to a guy who has shown he doesn't like paying his bills.

[Puppet Guy]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Jim Balsillie.... c'mon down!

Can the situation get anymore ridiculous?

Is John Spano is out of prison?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

They could win the auction and then open it up to offers - probably have more suitors if they have a place to stay in Arizona instead of just the Utah guy. Try to increase the price.

I don't know if there would really be any appeal for that. The buyer would still need to build the arena.

I know in Florida, it has long been said that the Violas are willing to lose money with the Panthers because their lease deal on the arena gives them the revenue from all events in the arena and those concerts and other events generate enough revenue for them to more than offset their losses from the Panthers.

The difference is that the building in Florida is publicly-owned, and the terms of the lease require the Panthers to be there for the Violas to get their benefits.


With these sorts of "Stadium District" projects (like the Ice District in Edmonton, Little Caesars in Detroit, Truist Park in Atlanta, etc.), the arena or stadium is the hook that gets the public interested and makes the local government willing to pay for the building while giving the sports team access to the surrounding land for further development.

If Meruelo is truly looking at building this with only private money, you really have to wonder, why even bother with the arena portion of it, when the Phoenix metro area already has two large-scale indoor arenas and the Coyotes have been bleeding money for most of their existence.

If you think about it, it would probably make more sense to build a 15,000 seat venue specifically designed to host concert tours and not even bother with the arena part of it. He'd still get the benefits of having an entertainment district to draw people in without propping up the money-losing Coyotes.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Can we call other markets poverty teams if Meruelo actually finances all of this with his own cash and ZERO tax dollars from citizens? ahem.. Alberta

Go for it, the odds of Meruelo funding this whole arena and land deal without significant tax breaks is zero.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Oh I'm sure Meruelo would love to sell to an out of town buyer and they have indicated that yesterday. More $$$ ROI

But the team isn't portable without NHL approval, local owners will be preferred. I don't buy this expansion team talk.

Local owners won't be preferred because they will still have nowhere to play.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by getbak

I don't know if there would really be any appeal for that. The buyer would still need to build the arena.

I know in Florida, it has long been said that the Violas are willing to lose money with the Panthers because their lease deal on the arena gives them the revenue from all events in the arena and those concerts and other events generate enough revenue for them to more than offset their losses from the Panthers.

The difference is that the building in Florida is publicly-owned, and the terms of the lease require the Panthers to be there for the Violas to get their benefits.


With these sorts of "Stadium District" projects (like the Ice District in Edmonton, Little Caesars in Detroit, Truist Park in Atlanta, etc.), the arena or stadium is the hook that gets the public interested and makes the local government willing to pay for the building while giving the sports team access to the surrounding land for further development.

If Meruelo is truly looking at building this with only private money, you really have to wonder, why even bother with the arena portion of it, when the Phoenix metro area already has two large-scale indoor arenas and the Coyotes have been bleeding money for most of their existence.

If you think about it, it would probably make more sense to build a 15,000 seat venue specifically designed to host concert tours and not even bother with the arena part of it. He'd still get the benefits of having an entertainment district to draw people in without propping up the money-losing Coyotes.

Add in the fact that he sees NHL franchise valuations at $1 Billion.

He's looking at a $3 billion development.
He has a $1 Billion source of cash.

Hmm...

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by getbak

If Meruelo is truly looking at building this with only private money, you really have to wonder, why even bother with the arena portion of it, when the Phoenix metro area already has two large-scale indoor arenas and the Coyotes have been bleeding money for most of their existence.

If you think about it, it would probably make more sense to build a 15,000 seat venue specifically designed to host concert tours and not even bother with the arena part of it. He'd still get the benefits of having an entertainment district to draw people in without propping up the money-losing Coyotes.

Easy: ego. Being part of the club of pro sports owners, especially in the Big 4, is a huge self-image thing for a billionaire. If, and it's a very big if, this gets off the ground, I doubt the Coyotes' operating income will make a huge dent compared to what the rest of the development brings in ... but in terms of him being able to keep his hands on a sports team, well, that's all personal. (Which has been reported many times during this saga).

For many of the questions that are being raised in here (and I have many of my own), there's been a lot of reporting done by local outlets in AZ throughout this process. Not much of it is a mystery at this point — this specific land pursuit has been in the works since last June, and it really all comes down to June 27.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Wow. You are giving a lot of credit to a guy who has shown he doesn't like paying his bills.

This has proven to be false. It wasn't due to any ability to pay bills it was a clerical and in my opinion strategic errors on the part of a new ownership group taking over a business they had no history with.

This is also an owner who's finances have been verified by the City of Tempe City Government and all City council members approved of.

[FlamesAddiction]

How confident are people that even if the arena gets built in that location, fan will fill it? The Suns are usually near the bottom for average attendance in the NBA. The Diamondbacks are usually in the bottom half or bottom third in MLB attendance. The Cardinals are usually near the bottom in NFL attendance. I can't imagine that the NHL will be more popular than those other leagues in the Phoenix area.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How confident are people that even if the arena gets built in that location, fan will fill it? The Suns are usually near the bottom for average attendance in the NBA. The Diamondbacks are usually in the bottom half or bottom third in MLB attendance. The Cardinals are usually near the bottom in NFL attendance. I can't imagine that the NHL will be more popular than those other leagues in the Phoenix area.

Not confident at all. I can't see the team not being relocated at this point, it makes zero sense for the league not to do so.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

The land is zoned for an indoor ice hockey arena already, I believe the only thing it is not zoned for is hotels

This is inaccurate. Gutierrez has suggested it is zoned for an arena, but it is zoned for an indoor skating rink. His claim is the parcel is zoned C2 which has a massive number of conditions to control what is on site. That zoning is mostly geared toward shopping malls.

https://phoenix.municipal.codes/ZO/623

Gutierrez also states they are going to try and leverage the language of ARS §§ 48, chapter 36, Theme Park Districts, so they can build out their masterplan.

Originally Posted by Jordan!

This has proven to be false. It wasn't due to any ability to pay bills it was a clerical and in my opinion strategic errors on the part of a new ownership group taking over a business they had no history with.

Meruelo went to the Donald Trump School of Business. This is the group that withheld a bonus to Tyler Steenbergen which required the NHLPA to get involved. This is standard business practice.

"“They default on a bill and then chisel you down to what you accept and then they pay you,” said one vendor."

Tell me if any of this sounds familiar?

"The team’s relationships with corporate partners, vendors and suppliers eroded as Meruelo Group executives applied what appeared to be a specific strategy: call up the partner, vendor or supplier, and ask that entity to “work with them.” This was often the starting point of a process in which Meruelo’s associates would haggle over line items in invoices or portions of a contract; it was also not uncommon for Meruelo associates to use the threat of litigation as leverage to get out of paying outstanding invoices or to make payments at drastically reduced costs. "

Meruelo runs all his businesses this way and has a sketchy reputation in Nevada for such behavior. The guy sues so he can gain leverage and get vendors to take less money.

This is also an owner who's finances have been verified by the City of Tempe City Government and all City council members approved of.

This is also inaccurate. The City is reviews the submission plan and determines its efficacy and impact to the community, not the individual's or organization's finances. The review conducted was on the financial viability of the project based on the funding sources, of which the Coyotes were asking for money from the City of Tempe relating to land investment and cleanup.

"On the financial front, a city memo released ahead of the June 2 City Council vote gave the team's plan a 40% score for "financial strength/ability," the lowest mark on the six-category evaluation completed by city staffers."

The Coyotes made the claim they would open their books to City of Tempe, but that didn't happen. The City only reviewed the proposal, which is part of their review process. The only group that reviewed the financials was ASU, who were providing a lease to the team, and they have a strong history of making sure they get their money. ASU was so concerned about Meruelo and the Coyotes they threw an ethics and behavior clause in the contract with the team.

"According to the document, if the Coyotes or Meruelo become the subject of adverse publicity, contempt, scandal or ridicule for violating “widely held principles of public morality, failing to conduct its business affairs with a high degree of integrity and honesty and/or failing to act as a good corporate citizen,” Arizona State can get out of its deal with the Coyotes."

The reputation of Meruelo is well known. He can say one thing, but history and the facts seem to point in another direction. The fact they are already trying to leverage the Theme Park District legislation so they can create a "special taxing district" clearly shows how sketchy this whole process is. Yes, they need to get a lot of zoning issues resolved and they still need to figure out funding for this project. The auction may or may not go off without a hitch, but it is just the first step in a long road to moving this forward. The politicking has not yet started as the local communities get involved.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How confident are people that even if the arena gets built in that location, fan will fill it? The Suns are usually near the bottom for average attendance in the NBA. The Diamondbacks are usually in the bottom half or bottom third in MLB attendance. The Cardinals are usually near the bottom in NFL attendance. I can't imagine that the NHL will be more popular than those other leagues in the Phoenix area.

Yeah this is my thoughts as well. What does it matter if they win this auction? Does it equate to consistent sellouts or close to it? No? Then it’s just another billion dollar dollhouse. This would be the 4th arena they’ve played in. Acting like it’s going to completely change the fortunes of the team seems insane.

Also why are the Suns and Coyotes fighting for a spot? Shouldn’t they be coordinating together? I feel bad for Arizona tax payers with this crap.

[Strange Brew]

It’s surprising to me how some people can take what is said by that organization and just naively believe it to be true.

If you look at the investigative reporting that has been done, when people from outside of the organization are contacted to verify information, it paints a very negative picture.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Puppet Guy

Is John Spano is out of prison?

No the idiot got out of prison after a few years for stealing millions only to bilk another company for 70k.

Result - another 10 years in the clink.

[Mr.Coffee]

There are many groups like Mureulo out there. Scumbags.

It’s just theft coloured differently and people like him really should be in jail.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Coach

Yeah this is my thoughts as well. What does it matter if they win this auction? Does it equate to consistent sellouts or close to it? No? Then it’s just another billion dollar dollhouse. This would be the 4th arena they’ve played in. Acting like it’s going to completely change the fortunes of the team seems insane.

Also why are the Suns and Coyotes fighting for a spot? Shouldn’t they be coordinating together? I feel bad for Arizona tax payers with this crap.

I don’t know why Bettman keeps going to bat for the Coyotes when the continually crap the bed.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I don’t know why Bettman keeps going to bat for the Coyotes when the continually crap the bed.

Because the league would rather make a billion dollars from an expansion fee than a couple of hundred million from a relocation fee. All the owners would have missed out on a good chunk of change if the Coyotes had moved to Vegas or Seattle.