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Old 08-07-2019, 03:07 AM   #41
Strange Brew
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The never ending Monahan debate.

“Why doesn’t he get enough credit?”
“He’s not complete enough to be an elite center!”

I will say that the #1 center seems to be about the most important position on an NHL team and recent Stanley Cup winners and finalists have had some excellent ones. I like Monahan a lot but that doesn’t mean this team is getting enough from him to be a championship contender. There is a reason why he is saying he needs to transform his game.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:06 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by djsFlames View Post
It's mildly surprising to note while Monahan wasn't anywhere near for the Flames what MacKinnon was for the Avs, that over the Colorado series he had 2 points and was a +1, while playing 18-22 minutes of ice time in the four losses.

I guess it was mainly the shutdown line that got the brunt of the beat down.
This is what keeps Monahan from being rated higher despite his solid scoring stats.

If Mackinnon is beating up on Backlund and the shut down line an elite centre (examples: Barkov Couture Schiefele, Getzlaff, Kopitar, Toews, Ryan Johansen) will get asked to play head to head against the guy on the other team that is controlling the game.

On the other hand Monahan is not crazy good enough offensively that the other team is forced to play their top guy against him to stop him from winning the game/series.


It's not enough for your #1 C to break even with the other teams shut down guys.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:05 AM   #43
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I wish I could go back in time and murder the first person who typed the phrase "true #1 center".
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:09 AM   #44
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Not a #1 only homers think he is lol
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:18 AM   #45
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Not a #1 only homers think he is lol
Well he plays the #1 center role, so he kind of is.

But yeah maybe we should find someone else to bump down this 82 point center to 2C duties where he belongs.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Not a #1 only homers think he is lol
Well he's been the #1 center of the Flames for some time and was the #1 center on a team that finished first in the western conference. The big question is if he's a #1 center on a Stanley Cup winning team and that's debatable.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:10 PM   #47
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Not a #1 only homers think he is lol
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #48
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Personally I'd switch Crosby and McDavid, and switch Monahan with Couture. Maybe switch Malkin and Seguin too. Toronto guys a little high but still on the list anyway. Couturier needs to be in the top 20 too

Not a bad list overall though
My thoughts pretty much.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:47 PM   #49
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The "#1 Centre" last year took a whopping 918 faceoffs at a stunning 46.6%

Crosby took 1826 for 55.4%

Elias Lindholm took more faceoffs than McDavid last year. Leon Draisatl took 422 more faceoffs than McDavid. He is more of a Centre than McDavid. The new narrative should read that Draisatl can only carry his own line when he has McDavid as his winger.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:49 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
Well he's been the #1 center of the Flames for some time and was the #1 center on a team that finished first in the western conference. The big question is if he's a #1 center on a Stanley Cup winning team and that's debatable.
Yep. It will be until he solidly outplays another teamís #1C over the course of a playoff series IMO.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:51 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Groot View Post
The "#1 Centre" last year took a whopping 918 faceoffs at a stunning 46.6%

Crosby took 1826 for 55.4%

Elias Lindholm took more faceoffs than McDavid last year. Leon Draisatl took 422 more faceoffs than McDavid. He is more of a Centre than McDavid. The new narrative should read that Draisatl can only carry his own line when he has McDavid as his winger.
Edit: nm -- thought you were talking about Monahan as the quote-unquote "#1 Centre" instead of McDavid
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:47 PM   #52
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One of the unique things about the Flames is that our best player is a LW, not a C. If you look at that list, most of the players aren’t just #1Cs, they’re also their team’s best player.

The point I’m making is that everyone loves to compare Monny to other #1Cs, but really he should be compared to other team’s second-best player, regardless of position.

Most teams:
C: (best player) W: (second best player)

Calgary:
C: (second best player) W: (best player)

Chicago:
C: (second best player) W: (best player)

Pittsburgh:
C: (best player) W: (sometimes)(second best player)
C: (most of the time)(second best player)

Stop comparing Monny to elite, all-world, top-10 superstars just because they play the same position. That’s not his role, that’s Jonny’s role. The Flames aren’t built the same way most teams are. Whether or not we should be built the way we are is a valid conversation, but nobody has two McDavids or two Crosbys or two Kanes or two Gaudreaus. They have a McDavid and Draisaitl, Cosby and Malkin, Kane and Toews or Johnny and Monny.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:58 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by FanIn80 View Post
One of the unique things about the Flames is that our best player is a LW, not a C. If you look at that list, most of the players arenít just #1Cs, theyíre also their teamís best player.

The point Iím making is that everyone loves to compare Monny to other #1Cs, but really he should be compared to other teamís second-best player, regardless of position.

Most teams:
C: (best player) W: (second best player)

Calgary:
C: (second best player) W: (best player)

Chicago:
C: (second best player) W: (best player)

Pittsburgh:
C: (best player) W: (sometimes)(second best player)
C: (most of the time)(second best player)

Stop comparing Monny to elite, all-world, top-10 superstars just because they play the same position. Thatís not his role, thatís Jonnyís role. The Flames arenít built the same way most teams are. Whether or not we should be built the way we are is a valid conversation, but nobody has two McDavids or two Crosbys or two Kanes or two Gaudreaus. They have a McDavid and Draisaitl, Cosby and Malkin, Kane and Toews or Johnny and Monny.
Sure, but you could argue that having the best player be a LW is a bit of a handicap because the C position typically has so much more impact at both ends of the ice. It's not like Johnny is typically checking the best player on the other team when the teams go strength versus strength.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Groot View Post
The "#1 Centre" last year took a whopping 918 faceoffs at a stunning 46.6%

Crosby took 1826 for 55.4%

Elias Lindholm took more faceoffs than McDavid last year. Leon Draisatl took 422 more faceoffs than McDavid. He is more of a Centre than McDavid. The new narrative should read that Draisatl can only carry his own line when he has McDavid as his winger.


Thatís a pretty narrow definition of what a centre is. Is that the only metric you are using to make that statement?
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:29 PM   #55
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Thatís a pretty narrow definition of what a centre is. Is that the only metric you are using to make that statement?
Yeah, I suspect that immediately after taking the draw, Draisaitl slides to the wing (as does Lindholm on RH draws).
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Old 08-07-2019, 03:04 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Not a #1 only homers think he is lol
Is a #1 centre, only morons think it's worthwhile to argue that he isn't lol
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Old 08-07-2019, 03:18 PM   #57
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I have a hard time believing that hockey fans in 2019 just assume whoever takes the draw is the center
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Old 08-07-2019, 03:38 PM   #58
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One thing that is obvious with these lists is hockey is a team sport. Toews once a top 3 center now not in top 20? Why, his team isn't a good. Oreilly has never been top 20 now hes 15 because of team success

I'd also like to see these lists tiered
As an example

Tier 1 McDavid and Crosby

Tier 2 players ranked 3 to 8. Anyone of these guys could be 3

Tier 3 players 9 to 14. Borderline top 10 group

Tier 4 players 15 to 25. Acknowledged that bottom 6 were close to being off the list.

As for Monahan. Not sure why we need to label him as a number 1 center or not or if he number on playoff team vs a contender as the opinions of everyone change as teams have success. Hes a damn good hockey player that I doubt anyone can list 31 better than him. Maybe a borderline #1 center? Definitely not top 10
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Old 08-07-2019, 03:41 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ShotDownInFlames12 View Post
This was the opening line of the article

ďWinning important face-offs, leading rushes up the ice, and setting up teammates are hallmarks of a top centerĒ
But there's obviously more to it than that, or Derek Ryan would be elite.
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:06 PM   #60
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Malkin has won the Art Ross twice. 2008-09 and 2011-12. He didn't take too many faceoffs the first time, but the second time he took 1210 faceoffs. He won only 47.5%. Would you not categorize him as a top center during that year?

I think the anti-McDavid bias is significantly showing. Oilers suck and probably are going to continue doing so, but McDavid is a Top 2 center in the league today, and there is little to no debate on that.
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